Palm Pre and iTunes

  • Posted: 29 May 2009 07:24 AM

    There seems to be some confusion here.

    iTunes already works with some third party players; it’s a historical legacy which Palm have presumably tapped into. It’s not a “first” for Palm. Of course it will only sync like a first or second generation iPod. So: music, but I think no podcasts or videos, and perhaps no audiobooks. Of course no Apps.

    Also, I doubt it does work with iTunes on Windows. Notice how they say “plug it into your Mac and it syncs your music with iTunes”. Why say that when most iTunes users are on PC?

    I don’t think Apple will block this; they don’t need to. Better to let the market see that it’s a limited one-off hack that doesn’t give the full iPod experience. If Palm want to take it forward, their approved route would be a sync app using the iTunes Applescript interface. Ouch.

    Mace: I believe the value of Fairplay’s exclusivity to Apple devices is the ability to contract with major content owners to update the protection on all devices if it’s ever cracked, with financial penalties if they fail. Fairplay won’t be licensed until it’s embedded in silicon sold by Apple to CE device manufacturers. So it won’t be licensed to Palm for the Pre.

    This “works with iTunes” story is all about handling objections for the first batch of Palm Pre prospective customers, so they plunk down their money before they appreciate the problems. (e.g. are your Amazon purchases on the Pre going to find their way back to iTunes? I don’t think so)

    [ Edited: 29 May 2009 07:36 AM by sleepytoo ]      
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    Posted: 29 May 2009 09:02 AM #1

    How does this hurt AAPL?

    First, you have to have iTUNES installed…

    A PLUS for Apple

    Secondly, you have them buying FROM apple for the most part.

    ANOTHER PLUS for Apple.

    Thirdly, with 85% + of the music sales online, Apple is PLUM RIPE for monopoly lawsuits, and you know how litageous the world is these days, so ALLOWING Palm to “get away with this” doesn’t hurt apple, AND gives them more protection from Monopoly claims.

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    Posted: 29 May 2009 09:27 AM #2

    And if Apple decides to ‘break’ this in the next version of iTunes, there have been third party applications out there that will just RECLONE the ability to do so anyway, as they do now.

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    “Even in the worst of times, someone turns a profit. . ” —#162 Ferengi: Rules of Acquisition

         
  • Posted: 29 May 2009 10:24 AM #3

    TanToday - 29 May 2009 12:27 PM

    And if Apple decides to ‘break’ this in the next version of iTunes, there have been third party applications out there that will just RECLONE the ability to do so anyway, as they do now.

    Yes, it’s just great that they promote convicted hacker DVD John.

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    Posted: 29 May 2009 11:18 AM #4

    Hackers are a fact of life.

    Whatever locks man creates, others learn to pick.

    As long as one is NOT STEALING CONTENT, I see it as harmless cat and mouse.

    Seeing as iTunes is FREE for anyone that wants to use it, and money is MADE via purchases, not on the program itself, I would think that Apple would OPEN UP iTunes so that ANYONE could use the program to PURCHASE, as well as organize and play content.

    I view that as “Viral Basics 101”

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    “Even in the worst of times, someone turns a profit. . ” —#162 Ferengi: Rules of Acquisition

         
  • Posted: 29 May 2009 11:37 AM #5

    TanToday - 29 May 2009 02:18 PM

    Hackers are a fact of life.

    Whatever locks man creates, others learn to pick.

    As long as one is NOT STEALING CONTENT, I see it as harmless cat and mouse.

    Seeing as iTunes is FREE for anyone that wants to use it, and money is MADE via purchases, not on the program itself, I would think that Apple would OPEN UP iTunes so that ANYONE could use the program to PURCHASE, as well as organize and play content.

    I view that as “Viral Basics 101”

    You say “As long as one is NOT STEALING CONTENT” yet the app you demonstrated is almost entirely set up to do that. I find it ironic that you are fine with something if it is not stealing content but yet are perfectly happy with the software being abused by a third party for publicity purposes.

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  • Posted: 29 May 2009 11:40 AM #6

    If the Pre only works with iTunes till Apple breaks it’s hack (like jailbroken iPhones) with a software update, it’s bragging rights to syncing with iTunes will be : Zero ie: worth nothing.

    Palm could license iTunes interface rights from Apple , but Apple likely will not help them get a foot on the ground.

    Pre is just another wannabe that’s too late to the game, Android phones will probably offer better options

    [ Edited: 29 May 2009 11:43 AM by breeze ]      
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    Posted: 29 May 2009 01:04 PM #7

    TanToday - 29 May 2009 02:18 PM

    ... Seeing as iTunes is FREE for anyone that wants to use it, and money is MADE via purchases, not on the program itself, I would think that Apple would OPEN UP iTunes so that ANYONE could use the program to PURCHASE, as well as organize and play content.

    I view that as “Viral Basics 101”

    sleepytoo,

    Note above point.  The original goal of FairPlay is no longer relevant since iTunes Plus.

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  • Posted: 29 May 2009 02:30 PM #8

    Hi TanToday,
    You assert that “Apple is PLUM RIPE for monopoly lawsuits.” My understanding is that Microsoftass, for example, lost a court case at one time when the court ruled that it was not just a monopoly, which is legal in the US, but a predatory monopoly, which is illegal. It’s illegal because (I think) because it stifles competition and and destroys competitors. This is predation to achieve a monopoly.

    Non-predatory vs. predatory. See? Apple’s iPhone may be a monopoly. I don’t know. If it is, it’s a likely a non-predatory monopoly, e.g., a legal monopoly, hence not “...PLUM RIPE for monopoly lawsuits.”

         
  • Posted: 29 May 2009 02:59 PM #9

    Mace - 29 May 2009 04:04 PM
    TanToday - 29 May 2009 02:18 PM

    ... Seeing as iTunes is FREE for anyone that wants to use it, and money is MADE via purchases, not on the program itself, I would think that Apple would OPEN UP iTunes so that ANYONE could use the program to PURCHASE, as well as organize and play content.

    I view that as “Viral Basics 101”

    sleepytoo,

    Note above point.  The original goal of FairPlay is no longer relevant since iTunes Plus.

    True for music, but it’s a bit more complicated than that. For HD movies, I wasn’t aware the rights owners had relented in any form. There’s the additional point that the iTunes uses Fairplay for applications, and this is the developer’s protection of their only revenue. I think Apple’s tight control of Fairplay is still an important component of video content licensing, and a reassurance for application developers. So I still think Apple won’t license Fairplay in the near future.

    I also stand corrected on the sync feature. In their press release Palm say transparent iTunes sync of all media files on both Mac and PC, excluding Fairplay.

         
  • Posted: 29 May 2009 03:31 PM #10

    TanToday - 29 May 2009 02:18 PM

    Seeing as iTunes is FREE for anyone that wants to use it, and money is MADE via purchases, not on the program itself, I would think that Apple would OPEN UP iTunes so that ANYONE could use the program to PURCHASE, as well as organize and play content.

    I view that as “Viral Basics 101”

    iTunes is not the razor blade method of giving away the razor but charging for the blades. You get iTunes free with the hardware. Apple don’t make much on the actual software sales. But on the iPods they make boatloads. So giving it away so the competition can use it seems a bit facile.

    I view that as “Marketing Basics 101”

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    Posted: 31 May 2009 05:17 PM #11

    It is unfortunate that Palm has tied the Pre to iTunes.
    When this tie is broken, Palms customers are going to be angry at Palm.

    You have to realize that iPods and iTunes are MOVING targets.  Apple has always and frequently updated its Fairplay encryption method via firmware updates.  Apple has also required firmware updates to use updated iTunes versions.  It is SO EASY for Apple to update firmware on each and every one of the hundreds of millions of iPods and iPhones in existence.  Apple easily does this all the time (much to the shock of some people who think it is hard to do).  It is one of the first things iTunes checks for when you connect to iTunes.  Apple has always frequently updated iTunes and iPod security - as people demand.  Apple has also updated firmware to allow the iPods to take advantage of new iTunes features like downloading music and video.

    The iPhone, for example, has been updated more than 18 times since it first came out two years ago.  iPods are similarly frequently updated in firmware.

    Thus, when Apple updates to iTunes 8.2, it can require a firmware update to use.  Since the Palm Pre DOES NOT have Apple’s firmware, as soon as a firmware updated is mandated to use a new version of iTunes, then the Palm Pre USER IS SCREWED.

    Palm will find itself whipsawed back and forth trying to grab Apple’s coattails.  Sooner or later, they will realize this is impossible to tie one’s fortunes on another company’s.

    It’s that simple.

    [ Edited: 31 May 2009 05:21 PM by jameskatt ]      
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    Posted: 31 May 2009 05:32 PM #12

    As long as Apple allows every Tom-Dick-and-Harry WINDOZE machine to load and use iTunes….

    ... making it ‘broken’ for PALM only is a federal monopoly lawsuit waiting.

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  • Posted: 31 May 2009 07:31 PM #13

    TanToday - 31 May 2009 08:32 PM

    As long as Apple allows every Tom-Dick-and-Harry WINDOZE machine to load and use iTunes….

    ... making it ‘broken’ for PALM only is a federal monopoly lawsuit waiting.

    And that helps the shareholders how, Tan?

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  • Posted: 31 May 2009 07:36 PM #14

    Loading and using iTunes is one thing .... Apple does not have to go out of their way to make sure the Palm “RIPOFF” syncs without issue.  I’m SICK AND TIRED of reading people defend that company ... they are a total waste of energy ... stealing every idea they possibly can ... without the iPhone the palm pre would simply not exist and I don’t believe the same can be said about iPhone ... touch screens have been around long before palm.  Palm should have died a quiet death a few years ago .. I remember walking into a “Palm” store at the “Grove” (a high end outdoor mall in Los Angeles) and laughing my ass off .... no one was in there ... not a single person and the outside area was packed it was a Saturday afternoon ...  without a doubt this palm has bet the farm on this phone .... anything less than spectacular and they are done for.