Having to pay for upgrades for operating systems in my book is not right.  When you buy a computer (new of course, if bought used this is different) you are paying for the latest and greatest the software has to offer.  If it is upgraded you should be grandfathered in.
Of course eventually you come to a point where to upgrade you need new hardware and to get it you have buy a new computer.  This is where you have to lay out a large expense to keep up.  But when you do, again you are paying for the latest and greatest.  Problem is the cutthroats of American business have us conditioned to believe that they can rip us off for anything they want and too many of the populace hand it over with no fore thought.  I used to work in Research and Development and it is the responsibility of the company to put out a product at it’s best and if they put it out before it’s time the improvements should be made at no charge and are done all the time along with defects being corrected. Where did this get lost in the shuffle.
Here’s an example that pisses me off.  I have been researching the Mac Mini for over a month.  It took so long because when you talk to Apple about it they are not honest.  Their only concern is to con you into the most expensive model they possibly can and if you upgrade the Mac Mini any at all they are literally soaking you to the cleaners.  For example $200 to go from 1 gig of memory to 4 gig of memory.  First of all they are removing and keeping a 1 gig stick that is worth something.  So in reality you are paying more than $200 for the 4 gig.  Also note they are not pulling a model off the shelf with 1 gig in it and swapping it; they have ones that had the 4 gig originally installed sitting around as any other model so installation charges are false.  I can buy the 4 gig sticks for $59.  So in essence if you upgrade the Mini to 4 gig from 1 gig you are being ripped off for $150 or more.  And the same applies to any other upgrade on it.  And why the 5400 hard drive, instead of for $20 more a 7200 hard drive which is more and more considered normal.
Now here’s the real beef.  Apple announces the upgrade to 10.6 coming in September.  If I order any computer between now and when it comes out, I am paying for the latest and greatest software but not receiving it.  By rights when it comes out I should receive the upgrade free of charge; yet Apple wants to charge me $9.99 for it and claims it to be Shipping charges.  The Post Office is expensive, but not that expensive.  A DVD can be sent through the mail much less (probably under $1.00) and should be sent to me free of charge.  They are not going to raise the price of the mini; it has been the same for years and with much less functioning capability than now.  But just because I buy the computer now they are going to rip me off for $10.  Seems to me they don’t want anyone to buy a computer from them between June 8 and September.  Their stock holders and employees will love that
When I called Apple and talked to their people about it (and I kept getting sent around to different areas) all were speechless to comment and could only agree with me and yet provide no reasoning or justification for the $10 charge.  I love the Mac computers but am quickly learning to have no love for Apple as a company.  They are more and more getting as bad as Microsoft.  Seems an honest business cannot exist anymore in this Satonic society that we have allowed to filter into our country.

Perhaps you should consider buying a PC, rather than looking at a Mac mini and deciding that a $10 processing fee for a major software upgrade that won’t be released for months is too much. I’m just as speechless about what you’ve just said as any Apple employees you may have had this kind of discussion with.

papaouiee - 18 June 2009 05:28 PM

Having to pay for upgrades for operating systems in my book is not right.  When you buy a computer (new of course, if bought used this is different) you are paying for the latest and greatest the software has to offer.  If it is upgraded you should be grandfathered in.

Dear Papaoulee,

I know you are a first time poster and I am sorry but this is just bollox.

Of course eventually you come to a point where to upgrade you need new hardware and to get it you have buy a new computer.  This is where you have to lay out a large expense to keep up.  But when you do, again you are paying for the latest and greatest.  Problem is the cutthroats of American business have us conditioned to believe that they can rip us off for anything they want and too many of the populace hand it over with no fore thought.  I used to work in Research and Development and it is the responsibility of the company to put out a product at it’s best and if they put it out before it’s time the improvements should be made at no charge and are done all the time along with defects being corrected. Where did this get lost in the shuffle.

So software development should be free. This is a really crap argument and I wish you freetards would go back to Linux. That is free.

I have some friends who are iphone devs and they have added some downloadable content to their game and are being hit up by people who are complaining that it shouldn’t cost 99 cents to add extras to a 99 cent game. Get over it. These things take time and effort to develop and people HAVE to eat. But no it’s all “wa wa wa - give it me free” WTF? Who made you the god of everything and demand free anything?

Here’s an example that pisses me off.  I have been researching the Mac Mini for over a month.  It took so long because when you talk to Apple about it they are not honest.  Their only concern is to con you into the most expensive model they possibly can and if you upgrade the Mac Mini any at all they are literally soaking you to the cleaners.  For example $200 to go from 1 gig of memory to 4 gig of memory.  First of all they are removing and keeping a 1 gig stick that is worth something.  So in reality you are paying more than $200 for the 4 gig.  Also note they are not pulling a model off the shelf with 1 gig in it and swapping it; they have ones that had the 4 gig originally installed sitting around as any other model so installation charges are false.  I can buy the 4 gig sticks for $59.  So in essence if you upgrade the Mini to 4 gig from 1 gig you are being ripped off for $150 or more.  And the same applies to any other upgrade on it.  And why the 5400 hard drive, instead of for $20 more a 7200 hard drive which is more and more considered normal.

First of all NOONE buys memory from Apple. And if you know what you are doing then you can replace the RAM and drive yourself. But of course as a freetard you expect someone to do that for you. Good luck with that.

Now here’s the real beef.  Apple announces the upgrade to 10.6 coming in September.  If I order any computer between now and when it comes out, I am paying for the latest and greatest software but not receiving it.  By rights when it comes out I should receive the upgrade free of charge; yet Apple wants to charge me $9.99 for it and claims it to be Shipping charges.  The Post Office is expensive, but not that expensive.  A DVD can be sent through the mail much less (probably under $1.00) and should be sent to me free of charge.  They are not going to raise the price of the mini; it has been the same for years and with much less functioning capability than now.  But just because I buy the computer now they are going to rip me off for $10.  Seems to me they don’t want anyone to buy a computer from them between June 8 and September.  Their stock holders and employees will love that.

You have come to a stockholders board to complain about that? Good luck with that. If you really are moaning about 10 bucks for a new, completely rewritten system from the ground up then stuff it, go buy a netbook with Ubuntu on it. Go complain on the Linux boards that you are being ripped off. But not here.

When I called Apple and talked to their people about it (and I kept getting sent around to different areas) all were speechless to comment and could only agree with me and yet provide no reasoning or justification for the $10 charge.  I love the Mac computers but am quickly learning to have no love for Apple as a company.  They are more and more getting as bad as Microsoft.  Seems an honest business cannot exist anymore in this Satonic society that we have allowed to filter into our country.

Because you are a freetard. Please F*** off.

I can’t help further deconstructing this, because… well, just because.

I’ll just pick one of the more-fun parts.

papaouiee - 18 June 2009 05:28 PM

Now here’s the real beef.  Apple announces the upgrade to 10.6 coming in September.  If I order any computer between now and when it comes out, I am paying for the latest and greatest software but not receiving it.

Ummm, no. Please pay careful attention.

You ARE paying for the latest and greatest software, and you ARE receiving it. Leopard 10.5.7 = the latest and greatest software. You’ll even get a FREE update to 10.5.8 when it’s released between now and then.

Snow Leopard is not a released product. And so, no free Snow Leopard for you, if you buy an Apple computer today; not at any price, and certainly not for free. And somehow, this is a problem for you.

If your notion of “paying for the latest and greatest software” and “receiving it” = Snow Leopard, then you can simply wait until it is a RELEASED, shipping product which is bundled for free with all new Apple computers; and then you can buy one and get it for FREE.

papaouiee - 18 June 2009 05:28 PM

By rights when it comes out I should receive the upgrade free of charge; yet Apple wants to charge me $9.99 for it and claims it to be Shipping charges.  The Post Office is expensive, but not that expensive.  A DVD can be sent through the mail much less (probably under $1.00) and should be sent to me free of charge.

Well, I don’t know. I just ordered a few rubber o-rings for some swimming pool valves from a pool supply place in Florida. They charged me $9.99 for shipping. $9.99 to mail a few thin rubber rings, $9.99 to ship a major upgrade to the world’s best operating system on a DVD. Which of these do you think is a better value?

papaouiee - 18 June 2009 05:28 PM

They are not going to raise the price of the mini; it has been the same for years and with much less functioning capability than now.  But just because I buy the computer now they are going to rip me off for $10.

So how much less than $10 would it have been for you not to have felt ripped off? $8.99? $5.99? $2.99? $.99?

You’d have found a way to have been unhappy at any price. Only “free” would have been no complaint. Haven’t we seen this kind of thing a million times already, in the reviews of App store iPhone/touch apps where people call anything over .99 overpriced?

papaouiee - 18 June 2009 05:28 PM

Seems to me they don’t want anyone to buy a computer from them between June 8 and September.

Maybe not total cheapskates who don’t want to give them a nominal $10 for a major Snow Leopard DVD that (maybe) half a million man hours went into the creation of, over the past 2+ years.

If -that’s- your justification for calling Apple evil (or Satonic, however incorrectly you’d like to spell it), then as rattyuk says, please find a free operating system (Linux) and then find a way to be happy with it.

papaouiee - 18 June 2009 05:28 PM

Their stock holders and employees will love that

As a long-time shareholder, I would be happy to sell one less computer between now and September.

papaouiee - 18 June 2009 05:28 PM

I love the Mac computers but am quickly learning to have no love for Apple as a company.  They are more and more getting as bad as Microsoft. 

As in, charging an unbelievably low, to-date-unheard-of-for-a-major-OSX-update, twenty nine dollars ($29) for anyone to update from Leopard to Snow Leopard. (and also, letting you have it for $9.99 if you buy a new computer between now and then)

Just as bad as Microsoft.

Right.

papaouiee, under the law (specifically Sarbanes-Oxley or SOX), Apple must charge for the Snow Leopard upgrade. If Apple were to provide OS upgrades for “free” under an agreement at purchase to supply free OS upgrades for a specific period of time, the company would be forced under the law to defer the recognition of the revenue on the sale of the Mac.

Here are two examples:

1. Apple defers recognition on the iPhone for the economic life of the phone, estimated at two years. Because of this agreement with the consumer who purchases an iPhone, Apple must defer recognition of the revenue from the iPhone’s sale for the two-year period of the stated free upgrade contract.

2. Apple does not defer revenue recognition on the iPod touch and thus must charge iPod touch owners a nominal fee ($9.99) for each iPhone OS upgrade.

Consequently, Apple charges a nominal fee under the Up-To-Date program for anyone who purchases a Mac without Snow Leopard installed through the end of December 2009. The fee is only $9.99. But that fee keeps Apple in compliance with the law.

What you are suggesting (free upgrades for subsequent commercial releases of operating systems) would, under the law, force the PC industry to change its accounting method on all PCs sold. The reason why this would occur is because under SOX the product would not be considered “complete” at time of original sale if free upgrades were provided later.

The $9.99 Apple charges under the Up-To-Date program is to comply with the law and simply covers the cost of manufacture and shipping.

Looks like I stirred up the soup and ruffled a few feathers.  Too bad all that replied didn’t read what I said; only heard what they wanted to hear.  Seems you are all totally brain washed by the industries propaganda (even the government if the administrator is right); so much so that all you want to do is put me down.  I’ll find a forum to join where people can think for themselves and are not just like a herd of cattle that takes any BS that they are told to believe.

papaouiee - 19 June 2009 04:53 AM

Looks like I stirred up the soup and ruffled a few feathers.  Too bad all that replied didn’t read what I said; only heard what they wanted to hear.  Seems you are all totally brain washed by the industries propaganda (even the government if the administrator is right); so much so that all you want to do is put me down.  I’ll find a forum to join where people can think for themselves and are not just like a herd of cattle that takes any BS that they are told to believe.

This is a FINANCE forum for people who trade Apple shares. What did you expect? Nice troll.

I have dappled in stocks too, but I expect companies I help to run an honest business and treat their customers fairly.  I’m not a greety *** that wants to rip off the world.

papaouiee - 19 June 2009 12:25 PM

I have dappled in stocks too, but I expect companies I help to run an honest business and treat their customers fairly.  I’m not a greety *** that wants to rip off the world.

Why do you feel that Apple would not be treating you fairly? You are not being treated any different than any other customer.  Apple has their costs, overhead, and margins. Many think their prices are competitive and choose to do business with them.  The choice is yours.

BTW, how do you feel “ripped off?”

papaouiee - 19 June 2009 12:25 PM

I have dappled in stocks too, but I expect companies I help to run an honest business and treat their customers fairly.  I’m not a greety *** that wants to rip off the world.

If you had owned an Apple product then you would actually know that this is a very shaky argument. I have had fantastic tech support when required - well beyond the sort of customer service expected from other companies. When I say tech support I am talking about serious hardware errors being fixed within a day for free, no questions asked.

So the “treating their customers fairly” bit is a simple thing to say but you obviously have NO experience with Apple as a company because that would certainly what you wouldn’t say if you experienced it.

papaouiee - 19 June 2009 04:53 AM

Looks like I stirred up the soup and ruffled a few feathers.  Too bad all that replied didn’t read what I said; only heard what they wanted to hear.  Seems you are all totally brain washed by the industries propaganda (even the government if the administrator is right); so much so that all you want to do is put me down.  I’ll find a forum to join where people can think for themselves and are not just like a herd of cattle that takes any BS that they are told to believe.

No one is putting you down. The law is the law.

Further, on the Windows platform, sales of the operating system is one of Microsoft’s primary sources of revenue. The Windows OEMs (HP, Dell, Acer, Toshiba, etc.) have no control over upgrades nor upgrade pricing that’s charged by MSFT. They only control the costs of Windows by contract on each new computer it’s installed for original sale. How could expect a PC maker to provide free upgrades on a product they neither make nor sell directly to the consumer outside of installation on new PCs?

Apple’s lower-cost for commercial OS upgrades versus what’s charged by MSFT is a decided competitive advantage. In my case, under the Family Pack arrangement, each new commercial release of Mac OS X has cost me about $36 for each legal installation. For each installation of Snow Leopard, it will cost about $10 per legal installation. Contrast that with the costs that have been charged for upgrades from XP to Vista and the cost scheme for those upgrading from either XP or Vista to Windows 7.

All that aside, neither Apple nor Microsoft charge for OS upgrades or updates between full commercial releases. In other words, updates between the release of full commercial upgrades are offered at no charge to the user.

if you wish to dispute the validity and fairness of Sarbanes-Oxley, contact your House representative and your state’s two US senators. You can contact the president too. But the law is the law.If you think Microsoft should provide all PC users with free OS upgrades for as long as the computer upon which it’s originally installed meets the system requirements, give Mr. Ballmer a call. I doubt he will debase the company’s accounting and revenue models upon your request, but you can give it a try.

If you want a handheld computer that’s sold with a stated contract of free OS upgrades over the anticipated economic life of the product, buy an iPhone.

I have dealt with Apple’s customer service and tech support.  I talked to them several times trying to learn about the Mac Mini and each time they were deceitful and dishonest with me.  Their only concern was to con me into trying make me believe that I didn’t buy it with every upgrade they offered I would not have he computer I waned and needed.  My research taught me that the video board had 128 meg of memory with the 1 gig of memory and 256 meg if I sprang for the upgraded model an apple went went out of their way to convince me of that never telling me that the video board memory was accessed from the regular memory and all needed to get it to go 256 meg was an additional 1 gig of memeory.  They were deceitful in this way with everything.
When a company announces a new operating system and it is not yet available and one buys a computer in that dead time the new system should be supplied at no charge.  That’s just common sense and all the BS laws and government corporate *** kissing does not make something right, moral or correct.  I love the Apple computers but am vastly loosing any respect for the company - end of story - and I am not alone by any shot either.

papaouiee - 20 June 2009 05:21 AM

I have dealt with Apple’s customer service and tech support.  I talked to them several times trying to learn about the Mac Mini and each time they were deceitful and dishonest with me.

Their only concern was to con me into trying make me believe that I didn’t buy it with every upgrade they offered I would not have he computer I waned and needed.  My research taught me that the video board had 128 meg of memory with the 1 gig of memory and 256 meg if I sprang for the upgraded model an apple went went out of their way to convince me of that never telling me that the video board memory was accessed from the regular memory and all needed to get it to go 256 meg was an additional 1 gig of memeory.  They were deceitful in this way with everything.

When a company announces a new operating system and it is not yet available and one buys a computer in that dead time the new system should be supplied at no charge.  That’s just common sense and all the BS laws and government corporate *** kissing does not make something right, moral or correct.  I love the Apple computers but am vastly loosing any respect for the company - end of story - and I am not alone by any shot either.

Can you please stop trolling this board.

If you wish to buy a Mac buy a Mac. If you wish to be a point scoring troll please go elsewhere.

Mercel - 20 June 2009 07:28 AM

Sorry for being indelicate, but you are either a troll or a moron.

Hey, Mercel, please don’t bring religion into it! (jk)

I can see this forum is not worth the memory used to support it.  And since some of you want to get into name calling; I’ll just say that most of you are just a bunch of greedy little nerds and I’ll bet you think our country is in fine shape and making all the right moves.  My only regret to buying a mac is that I may pad your Satonic pockets with more blood money.  You are the ones that will be in the front lines, whining the highest wondering how our country fell apart and how we have ever allowed it; as soon as you realize it has already happened.  The only part of it missing is for them to officially announce it so idiots like you become aware of the reality of it.  Enjoy you Satonic wealth for the little time you left to enjoy it.  The remainder of time is forever.  Of course you could wake up and save yourselves; that would be the best.

papaouiee - 20 June 2009 05:21 AM

My research taught me that the video board had 128 meg of memory with the 1 gig of memory and 256 meg if I sprang for the upgraded model an apple went went out of their way to convince me of that never telling me that the video board memory was accessed from the regular memory and all needed to get it to go 256 meg was an additional 1 gig of memeory.  They were deceitful in this way with everything.

How was the company deceitful? The specs on the mini’s board (and all Apple boards) are posted on the company’s Web site. It’s common knowledge the Intel boards on some of the products share main memory with the graphic’s sub-system. The easiest way to increase the performance of graphics operations on these boards is to increase overall system memory on those units. Not only has this allowed Apple to reduce costs, it allows users to tailor a Mac for their particular uses as inexpensively as possible.

You’ve now tried to move the argument form one of a discussion of wanting free commercial upgrades on operating systems to blaming Apple for not researching the products you have purchased. A quick trip to the company’s Web site prior to purchase, even a Google search on the board and graphics system used would have provided you with all of the answers needed.