Google VS Apple

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    Posted: 22 April 2011 04:36 AM #31

    spoonman - 21 April 2011 03:52 PM

    So imagine your Gmail login worked for youtube, email, chat, music, movies, mobile payments, eventually documents etc.. .

    Google Checkout is tied to your gmail addy. It’s not very successful. People still use PayPal.

    The Android Market has many problems. It’s not available in many countries. There are few apps people are willing to pay for. There are non-Google app markets serving free apps. Finally, many Android users, especially in developing countries, don’t have credit cards.

    The Android ecosystem pales in comparison to the iOS ecosystem. Apple continues to work hard to improve iOS devices and the ecosystem - that’s what they do. If anything, the Android crew should be sweating as they watch iOS surge further ahead. Honeycomb was released before it was ready. Gingerbread is hardly installed on any devices and Ice Cream Sandwich is nearly ready for release…at least that’s what the rumors say.

         
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    Posted: 22 April 2011 08:02 PM #32

    Price drop on Thunderbolt

    http://www.onlinesocialmedia.net/20110422/htc-thunderbolt-price-drop-amazon-massively-reduce/

    A sign of poor demand after being out for barely a month.

         
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    Posted: 22 April 2011 08:13 PM #33

    That’s just sad.  Poor demand is right.

    There’s no other way to spin a sudden $120 price drop.

    To all those who thought the Thunderbolt’s initial sales would project out at anywhere near launch rate x number of weeks - well, I don’t think that’s happening now.

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  • Posted: 22 April 2011 08:24 PM #34

    omacvi - 22 April 2011 11:02 PM

    Price drop on Thunderbolt

    http://www.onlinesocialmedia.net/20110422/htc-thunderbolt-price-drop-amazon-massively-reduce/

    A sign of poor demand after being out for barely a month.

    No, no! You must be wrong! And I have proof!

    A search for the term “HTC Thunderbolt ‘iPhone Killer’” brings up 213,000 results.

    Clearly the Thunderbolt is slaying the iphone.

         
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    Posted: 22 April 2011 11:08 PM #35

    Mav - 22 April 2011 11:13 PM

    To all those who thought the Thunderbolt’s initial sales would project out at anywhere near launch rate x number of weeks - well, I don’t think that’s happening now.

    Even those “hot” initial sales were barely a third of iPhone 4 sales in its ninth month. Talk of an iPhone “killer” won’t end for another couple of years. Pundits were still talking about an iPod killer as recently as 2008, in the iPod’s 7th year. Apple haters are a bit slow to figure such things out.

         
  • Posted: 23 April 2011 03:33 AM #36

    Mercel - 16 April 2011 11:31 PM

    I’ve used the Android handsets and am underwhelmed.  Both the hardware and software are second tier to the iPhone yet Android has wide awareness and acceptance that is surprising to me.

    Remember apple has purposefully cultivated the boutique mindset, along with a culture of exclusivity, higher prices,  and unfortunately, a culture of arrogance with their “I’m a Mac” commercials.

    It is hard to convey to the unwashed masses that a product is better without coming right out and saying it—and it is interesting that Apple is both simultaneously the underdog and and yet conceived of as the arrogant party.

    Many non apple people rebel against the arrogance.  A large portion of the close to 90% the world who don’t use a Mac will purposely never use an iPhone—in fact will go out of their way to use anything but.

    Android succeeds for these reasons.

    Once the 90% of the world is offered a 3rd choice they are comfortable with—Windows 7/Nokia phone (virii and all), Android will lose enormous market share.

         
  • Posted: 23 April 2011 03:43 AM #37

    Bosco (Brad Hutchings) - 17 April 2011 12:05 AM

    DT, you’re continuing to make a very strong bet that mobile is not like computers, that it needs to be controlled tightly to be useful. Forget profitable. Everyone except Apple is moving to positions of less control, distributed control, or no control, relying on the familiarity of PC software models. The shift (which isn’t really a shift, but a maturing of competition) ups the negative perception of Apple’s model, further pressuring it into a niche of true believers.

    interesting and thought provoking. 

    true in the sense that apple will continue to push into a smaller and smaller niche of true believers.  but that is what SJ ultimately wants, to sell the niche BMW to the minority, not the Ford/Camry. 

    unfortunately, that will mean most of the world will not end up with iphones but WM7/Nokia

    in what ways are the other players giving up control?  google would like to tighten up ship but yes, the fragmented genie is out of the bottle.

    Why wouldn’t WM7/Nokia create similar choke points / control?

         
  • Posted: 23 April 2011 03:54 AM #38

    a culture of arrogance with their ?I?m a Mac? commercials.

    The attitude that Apple is arrogant in that they cleverly pointed out the shortcomings of Microsoft software and related hardware, betrays a lack of perception in the observer indicating an undeveloped intellect that would be better suited with a slower, feature crippled device.

    The market is a wonderful thing. It serves all.

         
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    Posted: 23 April 2011 03:55 AM #39

    Drew Bear - 23 April 2011 02:08 AM
    Mav - 22 April 2011 11:13 PM

    To all those who thought the Thunderbolt’s initial sales would project out at anywhere near launch rate x number of weeks - well, I don’t think that’s happening now.

    Even those “hot” initial sales were barely a third of iPhone 4 sales in its ninth month. Talk of an iPhone “killer” won’t end for another couple of years. Pundits were still talking about an iPod killer as recently as 2008, in the iPod’s 7th year. Apple haters are a bit slow to figure such things out.

    The handset market is about 10x bigger than the MP3 market IIRC.  And with much higher ASPs on the high end, the stakes are galactic in comparison.  Competition will just keep heating up in the years ahead and no vendor worth their salt will publicly cede any ground.  I don’t see talk of an “iPhone killer” ending…pretty much ever.

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  • Posted: 23 April 2011 05:00 AM #40

    danthemason - 23 April 2011 06:54 AM

    a culture of arrogance with their ?I?m a Mac? commercials.

    The attitude that Apple is arrogant in that they cleverly pointed out the shortcomings of Microsoft software and related hardware, betrays a lack of perception in the observer indicating an undeveloped intellect that would be better suited with a slower, feature crippled device.

    The market is a wonderful thing. It serves all.


    Strangely, whenever I said that to my unintelligent Windows friends they punched me.  Oh the fights we’ve had (not kidding).

    But seriously, I’m often incredulous and wonder to myself:  “Just how stupid *is* this Windows user who is paying me to fix their damn Windows computer for the FOURTH time, this after I’ve repeatedly advised them to just let go and get a Mac.

    Then I remember I’m an arrogant Mac loving son of a bitch, and smile.

         
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    Posted: 23 April 2011 06:46 AM #41

    DawnTreader - 16 April 2011 10:54 PM

    iPhone and Android handset activations provide for an absolutely meaningless comparison. The metrics that matter are revenue share and revenue flows to developers.

    Android is not Apple’s biggest challenge. Apple’s biggest challenge is meeting iPhone demand with iPhone supply.

    +1

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  • Posted: 23 April 2011 11:51 AM #42

    It’s still the carriers who have been granted by governments the privilege of taxation-like revenues to suit themselves. Governments did set up notional competition, so carriers try to use handsets to differentiate and attract customers. It’s still the carrier who is buying the handset for the subscriber. And because Google can’t control the uses of Android, they can’t have meaningful negotiation with carriers, and neither can the handset makers, because they can’t control the other Android handsets.

    As I understand it, Apple has enabled ATT to manage the build out of their 3G infrastructure without any disasters, by holding back high bandwidth features (tethering, video chat etc) until the network could cope, and then delivering large numbers of customers for those features when the network is ready.

    The free-for-all that some would like to pretend is better for the end user just doesn’t work for the carriers. Android won’t drive Apple’s margins down to those of Nokia, HTC or Samsung while Apple continues to manage the platform tightly.

    While the carriers have any power at all, smartphones won’t turn into an Android monopoly.

         
  • Posted: 23 April 2011 02:17 PM #43

    steves - 23 April 2011 06:33 AM

    Many non apple people rebel against the arrogance.  A large portion of the close to 90% the world who don’t use a Mac will purposely never use an iPhone—in fact will go out of their way to use anything but.

    I don’t agree with this. I think your perspective has been skewed by the very vocal anti-Apple minority. Take for example the iPad. A recent study indicated that only 27% of iPad owners owned an iPhone. That means that 3 out of 4 iPad owners may be part of that 90% of the world who “didn’t” (emphasis on the past tense) own an Apple product.

    Now I don’t know whether this is true for a fact. I would be persuaded by any scientific poll taken by any reputable authority. But in the meantime, I would warn against relying solely on anecdotal evidence and your own personal experience. Sadly, it’s not what we don’t know that hurts us so. The danger lies in what we “know”, that ain’t so.

         
  • Posted: 23 April 2011 03:26 PM #44

    steves - 23 April 2011 08:00 AM

    Strangely, whenever I said that to my unintelligent Windows friends they punched me.  Oh the fights we’ve had (not kidding).

    But seriously, I’m often incredulous and wonder to myself:  “Just how stupid *is* this Windows user who is paying me to fix their damn Windows computer for the FOURTH time, this after I’ve repeatedly advised them to just let go and get a Mac.

    Then I remember I’m an arrogant Mac loving son of a bitch, and smile.

    I know you didn’t go this far so allow me to do it for you.  It’s an upside down world where Apple is considered the arrogant party in this debate.  The only thing that Apple can be accused of is pointing out the flawed logic and beliefs of the windows community that continues to hold the belief that windows is the superior operating system.  It’s flaws and security issues have been well documented.  The arrogant party is the one who continues to hold tight to opinions that have successfully been shown to be in error.

    arrogant |?ar?g?nt|
    adjective
    having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one’s own importance or abilities : he’s arrogant and opinionated | a typically arrogant assumption. 

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  • Posted: 23 April 2011 04:43 PM #45

    FalKirk - 23 April 2011 05:17 PM
    steves - 23 April 2011 06:33 AM

    Many non apple people rebel against the arrogance.  A large portion of the close to 90% the world who don’t use a Mac will purposely never use an iPhone—in fact will go out of their way to use anything but.

    I don’t agree with this. I think your perspective has been skewed by the very vocal anti-Apple minority. Take for example the iPad. A recent study indicated that only 27% of iPad owners owned an iPhone. That means that 3 out of 4 iPad owners may be part of that 90% of the world who “didn’t” (emphasis on the past tense) own an Apple product.

    Now I don’t know whether this is true for a fact. I would be persuaded by any scientific poll taken by any reputable authority. But in the meantime, I would warn against relying solely on anecdotal evidence and your own personal experience. Sadly, it’s not what we don’t know that hurts us so. The danger lies in what we “know”, that ain’t so.

    i mis-spoke earlier. let me try it a different way.

    an oversimplification might be that there are at least 2 classes of users within the 90% of users that we will not easily win over:

    1) the angry - they already have a preconceived notion of apple’s arrogance.

    this is a vocal minority within the 90% who bristle at everything SJ says, detest his marketing methods (his Reality Distortion Field).  detest the so-called “geniuses”.  detest the haughty from above attitude.  yes, this is a very real group but yes, a minority compared to number 2, below.

    2) the uninformed.

    i’ve been an “apple bigot” for 25+ years.

    i’ve been a professional IT consultant for enterprise for decades. 

    in my off time, i’ve helped many many hundreds of individuals windows computers.

    in all that time, it has only gotten slightly easier to get someone to switch platforms.

    i routinely, persistently and gently recommend to the vast majority of my clients they would be best advised to switch to Mac. 

    for the last few years, i have even been urging a switch from windows to ipad, as the first line of defense, if the use case allows it. 

    i often help these clients identify the cases of friction, where an ipad will excel and where it will fall down.

    i have not kept stats, but the sad fact is most people are just too afraid of change.

    and the power of inertia is quite large.

    truly and sadly, what has happened is that people are scared and scarred from their previous computer use.  they do not feel in control of their computers and feel like it is a house of cards that could tumble down at any moment—and they truly don’t understand / believe that anything could be revolutionary / different.

    they don’t understand that the first computer to truly deserve the moniker “Personal Computer” is the iPad.

    if the iPad, with its simple walled garden and controlled universe (ie. for better or worse) had been the first PC, peoples relationship with technology would have been different.

    in any case, friends of windows users are now prescribing ipads to these windows users, so my job is sometimes already done when i arrive.  ipads already at the scene.  the best marketing will always come from within your own social network, not me or even your local IT guy.  so it is getting better.

    so yes, it is quite impressive that 3 out of 4 ipad users did not have an iphone.  excellent.

    count me in as of those who *does* think apple is likely to be one of the first $1T companies.

    but the entire mobile space is where the PC industry was in the 80’s, thanks to apple almost exclusively.

    this is the case that the tide created by apple will rise all ships, android, nokia, microsoft.

    just today i suggested a switch to apple to someone; they were concerned about all they would have to “sacrifice”.  that they would not have the vast array of “programs” available to them on “apple”.

    they were even contemplating a move to android tablet over an ipad.  i assured them there is far more software available for ipad then android.  in fact, for their use case (a physician), i explained there was and will continue to be, far more EMR packages available for ipad.  they remained unconvinced.  they thought somehow android would have “less lock in” and somehow more “compatible” with their PC.  these are the (sad and ridiculous) hurdles apple has had, and continue to have to overcome.

    the big elephant in the room and what i see to be the failure of many on the AFB forums is the sleeping giant MSFT/NOK.

    MSFT is about to explode on the scene, and it took me a while to confirm my belief, but I now reasonably believe they will trounce android.  it is microsoft that we need to worry about not google.  .

    this reluctant-to-switch-to-mac 89% group, who fears the unknown, with 20 years of MSFT inertia behind them, will simply prefer to go with the known - a windows phone.

    sorry to derail the thread like this, i think i should create another thread for MSFT/NOK.