HP and the WebOS

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    Posted: 28 June 2011 03:02 AM #31

    And now a Ford guy thinks this is all wrong. LOL see tge Death Knell #56 thread

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  • Posted: 28 June 2011 05:24 AM #32

    Drew Bear - 28 June 2011 02:48 AM

    And Apple will supposedly lose the smartphone war in exactly the same way. 5% market share and 50% profit share. I’ll take that “loss” any day.

    They will not lose, because Jobs learned from their mistake:

    If that’s so, then why is the Mac market share, even after Apple’s recent revival, sputtering at a measly 5 percent? Jobs has a theory about that, too. Once a company devises a great product, he says, it has a monopoly in that realm, and concentrates less on innovation than protecting its turf. “The Mac-user interface was a 10-year monopoly,” says Jobs. “Who ended up running the company? Sales guys. At the critical juncture in the late ‘80s, when they should have gone for market share, they went for profits. They made obscene profits for several years. And their products became mediocre. And then their monopoly ended with Windows 95. They behaved like a monopoly, and it came back to bite them, which always happens.”

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    Posted: 28 June 2011 10:16 PM #33

    seba - 28 June 2011 08:24 AM
    Drew Bear - 28 June 2011 02:48 AM

    And Apple will supposedly lose the smartphone war in exactly the same way. 5% market share and 50% profit share. I’ll take that “loss” any day.

    They will not lose, because Jobs learned from their mistake.

    I agree. Apple’s smartphone unit market share will never go as low as their computer unit market share. Neither, however, will it dominate in the way Windows has done. My point was that type of market share metric is not accurate in determining a winner or loser.

         
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    Posted: 10 August 2011 05:15 PM #34

    After a supposedly succesful recent weekend promotion, HP has permanently lowered the touchpad 16GB price to $399, 32GB price to $499.

    I always thought the touchpad was the best iPad alternative, be interesting to see if sales really do increase, or if they are just trying to clear inventory.

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  • Posted: 10 August 2011 05:42 PM #35

    iOSWeekly - 10 August 2011 08:15 PM

    I always thought the touchpad was the best iPad alternative, be interesting to see if sales really do increase, or if they are just trying to clear inventory.

    I can think of one good reason and one bad reason to buy the TouchPad instead of an iPad.

    Good Reason: I prefer the webOS user interface.
    Bad Reason: I hate Apple.

    Can you provide me with one more good reason to buy the TouchPad instead of the iPad?

         
  • Posted: 10 August 2011 05:51 PM #36

    FalKirk - 10 August 2011 08:42 PM

    Can you provide me with one more good reason to buy the TouchPad instead of the iPad?

    You had invested heavily in webOS apps? raspberry

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  • Posted: 10 August 2011 06:02 PM #37

    rattyuk - 10 August 2011 08:51 PM
    FalKirk - 10 August 2011 08:42 PM

    Can you provide me with one more good reason to buy the TouchPad instead of the iPad?

    You had invested heavily in webOS apps? raspberry

    There are webOS apps?  :-o

         
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    Posted: 10 August 2011 06:15 PM #38

    HP still has a chance to upset the Apple cart.  A $100 price advantage will get more folks to look their way, but since they have about the same BOM as Apple they are taking that margin hit in hopes they can win over some customers.  If they are not successful they could be the next Zune.  Technically a pretty good product, but a market failure.  For those who have not used a Touchpad. http://beckism.com/ provides a realistic but biased view ( due to being a Web OS developers) of the device and software.

         
  • Posted: 10 August 2011 06:54 PM #39

    pats - 10 August 2011 09:15 PM

    For those who have not used a Touchpad. http://beckism.com/ provides a realistic but biased view ( due to being a Web OS developers) of the device and software.

    A very good article. Long, but well worth the read.

         
  • Posted: 10 August 2011 09:46 PM #40

    FalKirk - 10 August 2011 09:54 PM
    pats - 10 August 2011 09:15 PM

    For those who have not used a Touchpad. http://beckism.com/ provides a realistic but biased view ( due to being a Web OS developers) of the device and software.

    A very good article. Long, but well worth the read.

    I have said all along that HP is the only real competition to the iPad.  It’s been a while since I last spoke to them, but I know a couple of engineers that worked first for Apple, then Palm and moved to HP with the purchase.  Their collective impression of HP is that they ‘get it’.

    I don’t see the price drop on the TouchPad as meaning its a sales failure.  I see it more as a way to get a good product (that will eventually evolve into a great product) into hands of consumers that will talk it up.  I don’t think webOS will overtake iOS, but it will, for sure, overtake Android.

    No other Apple competitor has the Brand, focus and resources (management vision and finances) to do this.

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    Posted: 10 August 2011 09:54 PM #41

    Gregg Thurman - 11 August 2011 12:46 AM
    FalKirk - 10 August 2011 09:54 PM
    pats - 10 August 2011 09:15 PM

    For those who have not used a Touchpad. http://beckism.com/ provides a realistic but biased view ( due to being a Web OS developers) of the device and software.

    A very good article. Long, but well worth the read.

    I have said all along that HP is the only real competition to the iPad.  It’s been a while since I last spoke to them, but I know a couple of engineers that worked first for Apple, then Palm and moved to HP with the purchase.  Their collective impression of HP is that they ‘get it’.

    I don’t see the price drop on the TouchPad as meaning its a sales failure.  I see it more as a way to get a good product (that will eventually evolve into a great product) into hands of consumers that will talk it up.  I don’t think webOS will overtake iOS, but it will, for sure, overtake Android.

    No other Apple competitor has the Brand, focus and resources (management vision and finances) to do this.

    Plus a clean patent portfolio

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  • Posted: 10 August 2011 10:38 PM #42

    Gregg Thurman - 11 August 2011 12:46 AM

    I have said all along that HP is the only real competition to the iPad.  It’s been a while since I last spoke to them, but I know a couple of engineers that worked first for Apple, then Palm and moved to HP with the purchase.  Their collective impression of HP is that they ‘get it’.

    As Mac fans well know, it’s not just the quality of the product that determines its success in the market.

    Gregg Thurman - 11 August 2011 12:46 AM

    I don’t see the price drop on the TouchPad as meaning its a sales failure.

    I do. You don’t discount a brand new product after a single month, or ever, if you can avoid it.

    Gregg Thurman - 11 August 2011 12:46 AM

    I don’t think webOS will overtake iOS, but it will, for sure, overtake Android.

    Hmmm. My crystal ball is a little fuzzy when it comes to predicting the future of Android tablets. But it snaps right into focus when I look at the future of the TouchPad. There isn’t one.

    Am I being too flippant? Let me lay it out. I think HP is too late to bring a brand new integrated tablet platform to market, especially since its business model is essentially identical the 900 pound gorilla already occupying that space.

    Further, unlike others, I don’t think that HP has anywhere near the hardware chops to compete with Apple. All they make nowadays are crappy low-cost PCs and chintzy printers.

    Finally, I don’t think HP’s management has a snowball’s chance in hell of executing on their strategic plan. They SAY all the right things but then they do none of them. L?o Apotheker made this big speech about only putting out “perfect” products then they introduced for sale what can only be described as a beta version of their TouchPad tablet product. The software was unfinished, the hardware was glitchy and the best you could say about it was that it had “potential”. People don’t have to settle for “potential”. Not when the iPad is available.

    Could I be wrong? Sure. But I’m not. For HP to succeed, they have to hit three consecutive home runs, in software, ecosystem building and management. So far they’ve done nothing but whiff. I see no reason to anticipate a miracle turnaround now.

         
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    Posted: 10 August 2011 10:44 PM #43

    pats - 10 August 2011 09:15 PM

    For those who have not used a Touchpad. http://beckism.com/ provides a realistic but biased view ( due to being a Web OS developers) of the device and software.

    His bias is pretty heavy. I think that makes his review unrealistic for the average prospective tablet user. I have some experience with WebOS on my Palm Pre Plus. Now that’s not the same as what’s on the TouchPad, but it gives me some frame of reference that 99% of the public doesn’t have.

    He started by going into great detail explaining how he thinks app switching on WebOS is superior than on iOS. His example involved using Instapaper, Twitter & the browser. I use Instapaper & Safari frequently so they are always on the first screen when I double-click the home button. If I was a tweeter, I suspect Twitter would also be on that first screen. Maybe he can switch from app to app faster on his TouchPad than I could on my iPad, but it’d be a race won by a few seconds at most.

    What he doesn’t mention is the time it would take to select text from one app to copy to another. There I’m willing to bet I could more than make up any time lost switching between the apps. Then there’s the question of how quickly an app is ready to function after you switch. I’m willing to bet that I would finish doing what he described before he did.

    Next he brings up automatic syncing. I personally don’t have a problem connecting the iPad to my Mac every few days, but different strokes. This issue will be moot when iOS is released.

    Inductive charging. I’d definitely love to have this feature, but I’m not sure I’d exchange lighter weight for it. He downplayed the weight difference by saying all tablets are too heavy right now, so a few grams difference is no big deal. I’ll bet most people would disagree.

    I have no frame of reference to gauge his comments on WebOS as his preferred development platform. All I can say is that there seems to be many thousands of people jumping into the iOS development ocean - some of them very young teens - producing some excellent work. WebOS? The Pre has been around long enough and the apps pretty much stink.

    Homebrew? C’mon. The iOS jailbreak community is easily as strong and vibrant. Again, the masses could care less about this.

    Enough apps to cover “core needs”? Maybe. Maybe people spend 2/3’s of their tablet time on the browser and email, but that remaining 1/3 is still a very big deal. Once again his biased view will not be shared by 99% of the public.

    Here’s a telling quote:

    HP Makes $100 TouchPad Price Cut Permanent

    A recent promotion on deal-of-the-day site Woot had the 16GB version on sales for $379 ? $120 off the then-list price ? but managed to generate just 612 sales.

    http://allthingsd.com/20110810/hp-makes-100-touchpad-price-cut-permanent/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker

    Wow! Woot has a huge following of very geeky people. You’ve gotta believe they’re at least waiting for $299, maybe even $199 by Christmas. That’s getting close to Kindle territory.

         
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    Posted: 10 August 2011 11:11 PM #44

    612?!  That’s pretty sad, honestly.

    I’m with FalKirk on this one.  Don’t give HP credit just because it’s HP.  Its CEO basically did everything he said he was not going to do, which hurt the TouchPad straight outta the gate because honestly, it could’ve been launched anytime this year.  There’s too much room for improvement with the TouchPad, and iOS 5 will make matters even worse for the product.  When the standard becomes Apple (as opposed to Microsoft), product expectations change dramatically, because their hardware/software combination is the measuring stick. 

    Is it really that competitors simply aren’t used to Apple being in the lead?  Or just maybe, Apple is simply much better, pure and simple.

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  • Posted: 11 August 2011 12:08 AM #45

    I have (at least) one more misgiving about HP, but I’ll admit it’s more based on my gut than sound reasoning. A little while after the TouchPad came out, HP did a reorganization where they basically demoted Jon Rubinstein. They followed it up with an icky interview with ThisIsMyNext. The interview was so filled with bureaucratize and double-speak that it made my head hurt.

    The interview left a bad taste in my mouth. If you’re going to say nothing, say nothing. If you’re going to say something, be sure to get your message heard. The interview left me with the impression that HP was more interested in hiding what it thought than in sharing it. Not a good sign.