Kindle Fire Outsells iPad at Target

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    Posted: 28 November 2011 06:38 PM

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/11/28/amazon_says_kindle_fire_is_its_best_selling_product_but_wont_reveal_numbers.html

    Another indication that the Kindle Fire represents the first true competition for the iPad. Despite its shortcomings, the super low price and amazons kindle brand & ecosystem is enough to give it serious weight in the tablet market.

    Not that this is all bad for Apple. Although it might mean margin pressure on apple next year if it sees the need to introduce a cheaper iPad entry price point, the good news is that amazon completely obliterates any other competition from regular hardware vendors releasing android tablets - as there is simply no margin for them so they are not going to bother competing with Amazon.

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  • Posted: 28 November 2011 08:03 PM #1

    Potato chips, bath towels, and snow shovels also outsold iPad, but numbers were not revealed.

         
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    Posted: 28 November 2011 08:17 PM #2

    iOSWeekly - 28 November 2011 10:38 PM

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/11/28/amazon_says_kindle_fire_is_its_best_selling_product_but_wont_reveal_numbers.html

    Another indication that the Kindle Fire represents the first true competition for the iPad. Despite its shortcomings, the super low price and amazons kindle brand & ecosystem is enough to give it serious weight in the tablet market.

    Not that this is all bad for Apple. Although it might mean margin pressure on apple next year if it sees the need to introduce a cheaper iPad entry price point, the good news is that amazon completely obliterates any other competition from regular hardware vendors releasing android tablets - as there is simply no margin for them so they are not going to bother competing with Amazon.

    The business model for the kindle is different from the iPad.  Your opening line sort of assumes there is only room for one device in the tablet market but we know Apple already sells two, the iPod touch for the pocket and the iPad for the couch.  I think the kindle will sell well this holiday season, but we’ll never know the number.  I doubt Apple will participate in a race for the bottom in hardware pricing since this is their money maker.  Amazon is trying to upset Apple’s lead in digital media since they realize that digital is rapidly replacing CD, DVD, Books, Magazines ect.  All key products for Amazon’s future growth.  Amazon was losing the movie business to Netflicks for subscription and Apple for VOD, and the e screen kindle is a non starter for magazines, text books,  and technical publications so if they didn’t do anything they would give the education market and more to Apple.  This is the opening salvo but Apple has a big head start.

         
  • Posted: 28 November 2011 08:24 PM #3

    iOSWeekly - 28 November 2011 10:38 PM

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/11/28/amazon_says_kindle_fire_is_its_best_selling_product_but_wont_reveal_numbers.html

    Another indication that the Kindle Fire represents the first true competition for the iPad. Despite its shortcomings, the super low price and amazons kindle brand & ecosystem is enough to give it serious weight in the tablet market.

    Not that this is all bad for Apple. Although it might mean margin pressure on apple next year if it sees the need to introduce a cheaper iPad entry price point, the good news is that amazon completely obliterates any other competition from regular hardware vendors releasing android tablets - as there is simply no margin for them so they are not going to bother competing with Amazon.

    I really feel that the Kindle Fire and iPad are two different products addressing two different consumers, mostly distinguished by price.  That Amazon may sell a lot of these isn’t important.  Making a profit is, and the Fire has taken the remaining oxygen away from other Android manufacturers.

    Apple is selling the iPhone 3GS at a price low enough that with carrier subsidy it is virtually “free”.  Apple does not have to develop a special low cost iPad to meet lower tier buyer’s price points.  With the iPad 3 I’ll guarantee that Apple will offer the Wi-Fi only iPad 1 (16Gb) at $299, and the Wi-Fi only iPad 2 (16Gb) at $399.

    With software and services updates the iPad 1 will be equal to, or greater than, the Fire in performance, features and ecosystem.

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    Posted: 28 November 2011 08:39 PM #4

    Gregg Thurman - 29 November 2011 12:24 AM
    iOSWeekly - 28 November 2011 10:38 PM

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/11/28/amazon_says_kindle_fire_is_its_best_selling_product_but_wont_reveal_numbers.html

    Another indication that the Kindle Fire represents the first true competition for the iPad. Despite its shortcomings, the super low price and amazons kindle brand & ecosystem is enough to give it serious weight in the tablet market.

    Not that this is all bad for Apple. Although it might mean margin pressure on apple next year if it sees the need to introduce a cheaper iPad entry price point, the good news is that amazon completely obliterates any other competition from regular hardware vendors releasing android tablets - as there is simply no margin for them so they are not going to bother competing with Amazon.

    I really feel that the Kindle Fire and iPad are two different products addressing two different consumers, mostly distinguished by price.  That Amazon may sell a lot of these isn’t important.  Making a profit is, and the Fire has taken the remaining oxygen away from other Android manufacturers.

    Apple is selling the iPhone 3GS at a price low enough that with carrier subsidy it is virtually “free”.  Apple does not have to develop a special low cost iPad to meet lower tier buyer’s price points.  With the iPad 3 I’ll guarantee that Apple will offer the Wi-Fi only iPad 1 (16Gb) at $299, and the Wi-Fi only iPad 2 (16Gb) at $399.

    With software and services updates the iPad 1 will be equal to, or greater than, the Fire in performance, features and ecosystem.

    Be careful not to jump into conclusion too quickly.  Disruptors usually come in with seemingly crippled product at a lower price tag to the product by the entrenched vendor.  Hopefully Apple would do like you think, three price points for iPad next year.  The $299 price point is necessary to suck the air out of competitor’s tablets.  In the music market, Apple took awhile to introduce iPod shuffle, Apple shouldn’t take that long in the tabloid market as the competitors are a lot tougher and shrewder.

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    Posted: 28 November 2011 08:57 PM #6

    kevinhernandez - 29 November 2011 12:45 AM

    They had it on sale for $123

    http://www.bgr.com/2011/11/28/kindle-fire-just-123-from-some-walmart-target-locations/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheBoyGeniusReport+(BGR+|+Boy+Genius+Report)

    Wow, even I’d pick one up at $123 (if I ever shopped on Black Friday).  I still regret not picking up one of the HP tablets on fire sale just to stream video to my treadmill.

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    Posted: 28 November 2011 10:47 PM #7

    capablanca - 29 November 2011 12:03 AM

    Potato chips, bath towels, and snow shovels also outsold iPad, but numbers were not revealed.

    I don’t know of many Potato Chips, Bath Towels or Snow Shovels that have multi-touch screens and that browse the web, run apps, play media & let you download content from an integrated store.

    If you are trying to imply that the Kindle Fire & iPad are in completely different product categories - then you really need to reconsider your position.

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    Posted: 28 November 2011 11:10 PM #8

    It is very possible that the Kindle Fire outsold the iPad.  Most consumers don’t even know what to use a tablet for other then Apps, movies, and music.

    So when faced with the challenge of educated themselves about which one to buy, in a store like Target or Best Buy price would be the first hurdle.  Once that was passed compromising on size and features was even easier.

    This is Android allover again. They are selling millions of Android phones, google is not making money, the manufactures are not making money, and the developers are not making money.  The only ones that get the benefit is the carriers. Lets wait two or three years and see how far the Kindle Fire will get.  Having incomplete data for one day is not even worthy of discussion at this point.  Of course Best Buy and Target would make this public.  That Kindle Fire owner will have $300 more spend on other products.

    If Amazon can keep the Fire as the biggest seller at those places month after month, then I say we have a story and then we can speculate how it is hurting Apple and how long can Amazon keep selling a product for under cost.

         
  • Posted: 28 November 2011 11:16 PM #9

    capablanca - 29 November 2011 12:03 AM

    Potato chips, bath towels, and snow shovels also outsold iPad, but numbers were not revealed.

    LOL

    I’d wait until after the immediate post-holiday returns before writing the end of the story.

         
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    Posted: 28 November 2011 11:32 PM #10

    $123 tablet vs. $499-and-up tablet.  At Target.  Which is not a “top-tier” partner of Apple per se (no store within a store for example, AFAIK).  Where the Kindle Fire was probably advertised as a fire sale special.  And the Kindle Fire is a very new product.  When it’s Black Friday/Thanksgiving weekend.

    The true comparison is full-quarter sales and even that’s a little skewed (given differing release cycles).  When is Kindle Fire a huge hit?  When return rates aren’t too high, and Amazon actually decides to release unit sales for it.

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  • Posted: 29 November 2011 12:48 AM #11

    I don’t personally know how to get this data, but we need to know two numbers before we can assess damage.

    1.  How many of those sold were to customers who would not have purchased an iPad anyway?  When you create an “alternative” at less than half the price, you make the overall market bigger.  I suspect that this segment of buyers is substantial.

    2.  How many were sold to customers who would have otherwise purchased an iPad. This number measures the damage, not gross sales.

         
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    Posted: 29 November 2011 01:03 AM #12

    I’ll say it again:  Don’t equate competition with “damage.”

    The very nature of competition means that some sales may be diverted from another product.  Why go crazy trying to quantify “lost sales”?

    Ask yourself this:  Have you tried that lately for the Mac?  The iPod, which supposedly was destined to be diluted by competition and yet has stable, commanding market share as a cash cow years out?  The iPhone, which was born surrounded by competition?

    GROWTH is all that matters.  It’s also a nice metric in that it subsumes stuff like “lost sales” and competition.

    Trust me, you’ll save a lot of headaches that way.  I am NOT saying competition is to be ignored or laughed off.  Just that in this case, I think the tried and true works best.

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  • Posted: 29 November 2011 01:52 AM #13

    First and foremost I agree with what Mav just posted.  The way I’ve been viewing the Kindle products (and all android products for the most part) is that they’re basically gateway drugs to Apple.  People may buy them initially but grow dissatisfied with their limited function or substandard performance and quite often level of service.  They see the value in the approach and that is what motivates them to finally try an Apple product.  At that point (to date) it’s game over and they slowly move to the other products that Apple has to offer.  Again I will ask…,has anybody ever been to an Amazon genius bar?

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  • Posted: 29 November 2011 03:03 AM #14

    iOSWeekly - 28 November 2011 10:38 PM

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/11/28/amazon_says_kindle_fire_is_its_best_selling_product_but_wont_reveal_numbers.html

    Although it might mean margin pressure on apple next year if it sees the need to introduce a cheaper iPad entry price point,

    http://tinyurl.com/6sgrfz2

    From the article:

    In the third quarter of calendar 2011, Apple sold 11.2 million iPads, more than all netbooks combined during the same period.

    It’s going to be a long time before Apple HAS to come up with a low priced iPad.  Still, I think Apple will offer last year’s iPad 1 for $299 with the launch of iPad 3.  What will the makers of netbooks do then?

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  • Posted: 29 November 2011 09:58 AM #15

    No sales figures are given for Kindle Fire, so this whole thread is sort of void. Once Amazon releases concrete sales figures, then we can discuss how well the Fire is doing.

    Unfortunately, it is tough to go off of what third-party retailers say about a product since they never want to bad mouth a particular product especially if they are trying to forge an ongoing relationship with that supplier.

    On top of it all, the number of iPads Target actually had available to sell was laughable. I was in a target at 1pm on Black Friday and I stood right near the iPad display (for maybe 5 minutes). I saw three different people come looking for iPad only to be told they were sold out pretty much right after Midnight.

    If you have no iPads available for sale, it doesn’t seem as shocking that Kindle Fire may have outsold iPad.