Thoughts on Flash - Steve Jobs

  • Posted: 06 May 2010 06:35 PM #31

    macglenn - 06 May 2010 01:21 PM

    So, if Android can run flash effectively and garner share on this bullet point, why is Google converting the biggest video site on the web to HTML5?

    HTML5 is better.

    Android will run Flash. These are two unrelated issues. Just because Android phones run Flash doesn’t mean Google is taking sides. Allowing Flash on Android builds the developer base but it does little (or works against) the user experience. That’s not so much Google’s concern for an OS over which it has little control over the hardware feature sets.

  • Posted: 07 May 2010 09:13 AM #32

    Opera also chimed in

  • Posted: 13 May 2010 09:57 AM #33

    Adobe has a new ad campaign:

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    Posted: 13 May 2010 07:32 PM #34

    This Adobe developer has some fair points about open competition from a consumer’s POV.
    Absolute Power vs. the Pirate Flag


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    Posted: 14 May 2010 07:30 AM #35

    Adobe still doesn’t get it.  Or just averts its eyes from the facts.

    We all know the iPhone changed mobile computing in the huge way of having the OS, Apple’s own apps, the (mostly) third-party apps in an App Store, and nothing else.  No “haxies” or whatever you call it.  No “add-ons.”  No “toolbars.”  No “plugins.” 

    Really, it’s roughly the modern-day equivalent of the simpler years of video game consoles:  the system, and the cartridges/CDs that you put in the system.

    When a company decides to make this kind of model, where the added third-party functionality comes in the form of the app itself, how did Adobe possibly think it could fit Flash into this structure?

    A Flash app?  Just so you could find your favorite discrete Flash programs on the Web?  Uh…no.

    Flash integrated into MobileSafari, as a built-in plugin?  Well, no, because the App Store is the place to go for third-party software.  Even Adobe knows that running a cross-platform runtime that performs acceptably in a full-power desktop environment will…not do so well in a pocket-sized device.  Many of us still remember that Java cup that took some time to load and that the Java app was clearly less responsive than the programs on the desktop.  That inherent loss of responsiveness and speed has yet to change even with non-Java/Flash web apps on the desktop.

    Granted, using Flash to create standalone third-party apps isn’t technically the same thing as relying on a plugin.  But that itself is being technical, because really it is.  Build once, run anywhere is the essence of Flash and all cross-platform things.  I struggle to see much of a difference between something running in a Flash player and a standalone third-party app created in a Flash “wrapper.”  While the third-party app is more “native”, unless it’s specifically optimized for the OS or hardware, which doesn’t sound like “We love authoring code only once” (from that new Adobe ad/attack on Apple), well, it just won’t be as responsive or efficient as a app written in OS-optimized code.

    If iPhone had turned out to be far less of a success than it really was, would Adobe care so passionately about getting Flash on the device and spreading the joy of “choice” to everyone?

    [ Edited: 14 May 2010 07:39 AM by Mav ]


    The Summer of AAPL is here.  Enjoy it (responsibly) while it lasts.
    AFB Night Owl Team™
    Thanks, Steve.

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    Posted: 14 May 2010 10:20 AM #36

    I think the battle with flash is just a manifestation of Apple’s desire to maintain control of the core of the system.  It is obvious to me that Apple will be moving to a multi-core model for iPad/iPhone in the next generation.  The ARM A9 processor is planned to be available from TI & Nvidia in the 2nd half of 2010 and Samsung’s roadmap showed full rate production 1st qtr 2011.  This would align nicely with iPad version 2.  Apple has include GrandCentral Dispatch and OpenCL technology in Iphone OS4.  This doesn’t provide much benefit in a single core implementation so obviously Apple is giving developers time to re- architect their applications.  The multicore processor with the proper software will allow Apple to manage the core’s providing enough power when needed, but shutting down the extra core to save power.  Much of a computers computing time is spent in idle states so this will increase Apple’s advantage in battery life.  By tightly coupling the hardware and software Apple will jump ahead of the competition with the best battery life and top performance.  If they allowed Flash compiled Apps in 4.0 they would not take advantage of this feature.  Of course Adobe could rebuild the code in CS5 but that might have to wait to CS6 because they are busy working on a feature for Windows or a port of flash player 10.1 for Android.  Adobe and Apple’s mobile strategies are not currently aligned.  I think Adobe should be moving to HTML 5 output for mobile rather then spending money on newspaper Ads.

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    Posted: 14 May 2010 11:29 AM #37

    The end-user issues are: stability, speed, platforms and features.  Adobe scores inadequately on speed and stability.  (no idea on features.)  (I’d also like to toss in security as an end-user issue, but I don’t know enough about Flash vs. HTML to include security at this time.)

    The company that invests for software stability will be rewarded.

    I was glad to upgrade from OS 9 to OS 10.2.  (though it would be nice to get Sheepshaver going here.)

  • Posted: 14 May 2010 08:39 PM #38

    I don’t like this fight between Apple and Adobe. If you look at the fight between AT&T & Verizon, they are both being hurt. It is already troubling that there is no multiple expansion in AAPL which could be a signal for the return of the recession being a key stock unlike AMZN.

    I don’t know if this has been done, but they need an alternative to the flash video player. It is the biggest nuisance by not having flash. Maybe a hack which takes the video stream. Make a small internet gateway or some top 50 iPhone friendly sites. The iPhone has been around for a few years already and there is no Flash port. The Android is maybe a year old and they are having a Flash port soon? No wonder Steve Jobs is dissing Flash. Actually, I don’t think Adobe should be making a Flash to iPhone converter. It would be better for Apple to be in control of it or at least developing it in case it is needed.

    Marketing-wise, I would make Adobe seem like they are becoming too much like an OS maybe with web commercials like the Mac vs PC. Maybe team up with MS and push the open standard at the same time. It is one thing to talk about openness and another to give a viable alternative.

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    Posted: 14 May 2010 10:28 PM #39


    The ad, created to appear in several newspapers shows a great message of love for Apple and continues with the following message: ?We love the creativity, innovation, love, love the apps. What we love is not somebody take away the freedom of choose what they believe, how we believe and what they live on the web. ?

    [ Edited: 14 May 2010 10:31 PM by TanToday ]


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    Posted: 14 May 2010 11:25 PM #40

    TanToday - 15 May 2010 01:28 AM

    That is sooo funny!  LOL

    Thanks Tan.



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    Posted: 15 May 2010 03:12 AM #41

    Do John Nack has any comments on this article?


    Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.  - Steve Jobs

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    Posted: 15 May 2010 03:39 AM #42

    Hilarious find, TanToday.


    The Summer of AAPL is here.  Enjoy it (responsibly) while it lasts.
    AFB Night Owl Team™
    Thanks, Steve.

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    Posted: 15 May 2010 09:14 AM #43

    Our thoughts on open markets by John Warnock and Chuck Geschke.  Adobe started an Open Screen Project in 2008.  Since then many flash related specs are published.  However, these specs have not been submitted to standards committee for ratification.  So are not open standards.

    Transcript of conversation between John Paczkowsk and Chuck Geschke.  Answered many points raised by SJ in his Thoughts on Flash.

    Flash Player 10.1 prerelease software demos and interviews.  Would it be ready in Summer?


    Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.  - Steve Jobs

  • Posted: 15 May 2010 11:43 AM #44

    Adobe - you brought an advertisement to a gunfight, from techcrunch

    I enjoyed it smile

  • Posted: 15 May 2010 01:00 PM #45

    While Apple, Adobe argue, Flash at last comes to iPhone

    Take a look at Cloud Browse, a free app which lets you remotely control a Firefox browser with the results streamed to you on your iPhone, (see below).

    This means you can look at all the online ads, Hulu video, weird casual games or ‘other’ content you’ll ever need, and you won’t feel any impact on your iPhone’s performance or battery life.