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by
Ted Landau
July 18th, 2005
The Apple Store is a great place to shop. It showcases all of Apple's products in a cool environment, its sales help are generally knowledgeable, and the Genius Bar provides the sort of technical support that its name would suggest. Similarly, Apple's telephone technical support deservedly wins praise as one of the best, if not the absolute best, of any major tech company. But, if you have hardware that needs an out-of-warranty repair, beware. Apple may offer you a deal that would compete well with what you would get from a sidewalk con artist -- and be just as infuriating. At least that's what happened to me.
It all began when my 23" HD Cinema Display (the older ADC Plexiglas model) took a nosedive to the floor of my office (never mind what prompted it to attempt this diving feat!). The good news was that the monitor still worked perfectly after I returned it to my desk. The bad news was that the back leg that supports the monitor had snapped off. In looking at it, the fix appeared to be a simple matter that would take no more than a few minutes to do. The broken piece was attached to a hinge on the display unit by three screws. All I needed to do was get a replacement leg, remove the screws, and attach the new piece -- and I would be back in business.
Harboring hope that Apple would concur with my diagnosis and send me the needed part, I gave them a call. My hopes were quickly dashed. The tech support rep informed me that it was Apple's policy not to sell this part to end users. He could offer no explanation as to why; it was just the policy and there would be no exceptions. If the display had still been under warranty, I could have shipped it to Apple and they would fix it for free. Alas, it was not under warranty. Why? Because Apple does not offer AppleCare for displays unless the display is purchased at the same time you get a CPU. I had purchased my display separately, so it was not eligible. Period. No exceptions again.
Actually, extended warranties are generally a waste of money in my view. So I rarely get them. That is, if you purchased an extended warranty on every product you own that offers one and added up all the money you spent, and then compared it to what you would have instead spent on repairs for those products, you are certain to come out ahead by skipping the warranties. I had been willing to make the Cinema Display an exception to this principle, because these monitors are both expensive and more fragile than most other computer components -- but Apple had other ideas. So be it.
"What alternatives were left?" I asked the Apple support person." "Take it to your nearest Apple Store," was the reply. So I did. I packed up my monitor and lugged it over to Emeryville (CA) only to discover yet another unhappy surprise. To discuss what to do about my monitor, I needed to talk to an Apple Genius. The problem was that all the Apple Geniuses were currently busy with other customers -- and there was a queue of about a half dozen people waiting for ones to become available. To see a Genius, I needed to sign up on the waiting list. Except I couldn't. The waiting list had filled up for the day (even though it was still about 4 hours till closing time).
To avoid this dilemma in the future, I was told to sign up online prior to leaving home. While that was great advice for the next time I needed to see a Genius, it was a bummer at the moment. I did not want to have to drag my display back home and bring it back another day, especially when I wasn't even seeking tech support advice. I just wanted to order a part or, if necessary, leave the monitor off for a repair. I expressed my dismay. Happily, this was one occasion where an exception to the rule was permitted. I was told to wait a few minutes and the store manager would be out to help me.
As an aside, while I waited, I observed the Apple Geniuses in action. I was impressed. They never seemed to hurry a customer or get irritated. If it took an hour to explain even the most basic concepts, they patiently did so. Which I guess helped explain why you had to wait so long to see one.
Anyway, the manager eventually appeared and we got down to business. Once again, I was told there was no chance that Apple would sell me the needed part. I was not surprised at this point, but I thought it had been worth a shot to ask. What I could do was leave the monitor at the store and they would call me within 5 days with the cost of getting it fixed. I agreed. And sure enough, a few days later, I got the call. I was cheerfully informed that Apple would repair my display for $440.00.
Long pause, while I let this number sink in.
"What? You've got to be kidding!," I replied, "It's a piece of plastic that takes a minute to install. How can you even quote that price with a straight face? It's tantamount to robbery." As you might imagine, after my opening gambit, the subsequent conversation was less than cheery. In the end, Apple's policies were once again relentless and offered no room for exceptions. I was told that Apple charged a minimum fee for each type of repair, and $440 was it for this one. Take it or leave it.
I decided t o leave it.
I had gone the Apple Store route initially because I had wanted to avoid going to places like CompUSA (where, in my previous ventures, I had found their lone Mac repair person worked only on alternate Thursdays and hadn't ever worked on a Mac model newer than a IIci). But, living in the East Bay, I had a better alternative. I could go to the M.A.C. Store in Berkeley, a Mac-only Apple authorized service provider. Which is what I did.
What a breath of fresh air. I explained my situation to them over the phone. They instantly understood what was needed and said they could order the part and have it in their store in a few days. Somehow, the M.A.C. Store could do what Apple itself was unwilling or unable to do: sell me the needed part! The estimated cost would be around $80! Did I want to go ahead and order the part? You bet!
And sure enough, the part arrived as promised. When I brought my monitor to the store, they helpfully inquired whether I might want to do the repair myself (to save their labor charge). I said sure. So they supplied me with the needed screwdriver and within less than 5 minutes, my monitor was fixed. The icing on the cake? Their initial estimate was slightly off. The actual cost was $20 less! I only needed to pay $60 -- for a saving of $380 over what Apple had wanted.
I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions from this story. For me, I know where I will be going the next time I need an out-of-warranty repair. And you don't need to be an Apple Genius to figure out where that is.
Ted Landau is the founder of MacFixit, and the author of Mac OS X Help Line, Tiger Edition and other Mac help books.
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Observer Comments
Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:09 pm Subject: Great info
If I need an out-of-warranty repair, looks like it is off to the local AASP for me.
This, at least, is an area where the small shops can compete with Apple stores and win. They are not bound by the strict rules placed on the corporate stores.
I just hope that Apple doesn't cut them off at the knees and refuse to supply the parts.
Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:14 pm Subject: Little Guys Win
I concur with the others, you can often get better service from the third-party stores than the corporate stores. I've also had great experience with PowerbookResQ which seems to have expanded to also service desktop Macs and iPods since I last used them.
Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:44 pm Subject: I don't get it
A Mac repair guru doesn't know about waiting times at the Genius Bar and the option of signing up on line. He also doesn't know about Apple's repair policies, he has been around Macs a long time.
I am not going to buy an extended warranty for $40 toaster. However, for Macs and monitors costing thousands a few hundred bucks for extended warranty is a money well spent. Not that the warranty would covered this sort of damage, it is not computer insurance like what Safeware offeres http://www.safeware.com/
Yes, Apple should revisit its policies and pricing on repairing such things as the support in question.
"Actually, extended warranties are generally a waste of money in my view. So I rarely get them. That is, if you purchased an extended warranty on every product you own that offers one and added up all the money you spent, and then compared it to what you would have instead spent on repairs for those products, you are certain to come out ahead by skipping the warranties."
Ted.. I think your caculator must of dropped as well. Just take a look at PowerbookResQ for replacement LCD's.
Them: $889.00
Applecare: $349.00
Just think what else comes out of your wallet the next time when asked "Would you like Applecare on that?"
Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:03 pm Subject: even smaller stuff
QuoteThis may come as a surprise to you, but apparently you are at a Mac news web site reading stories about Apple and their computers. So while it is small stuff, apparently it is significant enough to take up a part of your day. Now get back our there and change the World! I'm sure you're contributing to society in very significant ways. Keep up the good work Guest!Guest wrote:
What a tragedy. Think how important it is compared to say, someone just being told they have Cancer.
I guess it would have been esthetically improper to have made something from metal or plastic to have served this crucial purpose.
QuoteGuest wrote:
Let me guess, you've never worked a day of your life in retail??
Ted, you're a [bleeping bleep}. You're actions are typical of all the "[bleep]" customers we get at our store. So [bleep] you. You [bleep]ed up and then you got pissed at an employee for quoting you a price. Your actions by trying to bend the rules instead of waiting in line are rude. Do you think the world revolves around you? How many other customers do you think they had to turn away, who decided, "hey, I should have checked to see if there was going to be a line", instead of making a hissyfit because you didnt' need "service", but only wanted to order a part.
And the whole, "I would have purchased an extended warranty" is [crap]. You could have easily purchased your monitor at CompUSA and gotten a warranty (that is, since you realize the importance of one on an LCD monitor) - but your a typical cheap customer. You "were" going to, until you realized Apple didn't sell one individually.
I work in a retail store. I've worked in a variety of retail stores (as I go through college), and I've met customers like you. You're all the same.
You had a cheap part break this time. I'm personally hoping for a backlight to go out next time.
[edits by bweels for language]
LOL
Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:08 pm Subject: Using it for business?
Quotemacuber wrote:
Just think what else comes out of your wallet the next time when asked "Would you like Applecare on that?"
If someone is using their Mac for business then the warranties and insurance are probably tax write-offs. Check with an accountant to see if it applies to your situation.
As guest mentioned, fabricate a replacement part if possible.
This past Saturday I received my repaired Powerbook from the Boca Raton Apple store. When I had left it, I was told I might have to pay up to $955 to repair it since the damage had been caused by me dropping the system (which is true). Luckily, AMEX was going to cover the charge.
So, imagine my surprise when I find out that they replaced all the broken parts at no charge whatsoever! I almost bought $955 worth of stuff right then and there.
Anyways, I do, however, agree that having to sign-up to speak to the Genius in order to schedule a repair is extremely annoying. In fact, someone at the store even suggested that I needed to sign-up and wait just to get my computer back. Luckily, another store employee said that this was not the case.
All-in-all, my experiences at the Apple stores have been incredible and now that they gave me $955 worth of repairs, their employees can beat me down, call me all sorts of derogatory names and I wouldn't care...I would still think they rock!
QuoteI think the point was that it was silly to have to pay $440 for a piece of plastic that is externally attached to the display via 3 screws. I don't think he was saying Apple should have paid for it.Guest wrote:
AppleCare is not an extended warranty to begin with and wouldnt cover the damage from your neglecting to secure your monitor to your desk properly. Warranties don't cover abuse of a product which this is what it is even if it were and accident. You dropping your monitor is no fault of Apple's why should they have to pay for it?
QuoteGuest wrote:
Let me guess, you've never worked a day of your life in retail??
Ted, you're a [bleeping bleep}. You're actions are typical of all the "[bleep]" customers we get at our store. So [bleep] you. You [bleep]ed up and then you got pissed at an employee for quoting you a price. Your actions by trying to bend the rules instead of waiting in line are rude. Do you think the world revolves around you? How many other customers do you think they had to turn away, who decided, "hey, I should have checked to see if there was going to be a line", instead of making a hissyfit because you didnt' need "service", but only wanted to order a part.
And the whole, "I would have purchased an extended warranty" is [crap]. You could have easily purchased your monitor at CompUSA and gotten a warranty (that is, since you realize the importance of one on an LCD monitor) - but your a typical cheap customer. You "were" going to, until you realized Apple didn't sell one individually.
I work in a retail store. I've worked in a variety of retail stores (as I go through college), and I've met customers like you. You're all the same.
You had a cheap part break this time. I'm personally hoping for a backlight to go out next time.
BTW, people buy extended warranties for two reasons:
1. to save money on parts & labor
2. better customer support
If you've ever wondered why you get [crappy] customer support at stores, now you know. You're cheap. Get over it.
[edits by bweels for language]
Wait are you not being sarcastic? Cause I assumed you were. Geez man its not his fault you're not doing anything better with your life. This guys SHOULD have to pay $440 for a piece of plastic that can be attached in 30 seconds with a screw driver? It's not like Apple is supporting it or the repair. He can attach it himself. They are just trying to rip him off with generic repair fees that shouldn't even apply to a repair like this. I'd think on the income you must make, you'd appreciate his not wanting to get ripped off.
I think your first statement is the more accurate one. You GENERALLY come out ahead if you don't buy them. But it's a gamble.
Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:33 pm Subject:
QuoteGuest wrote:
Let me guess, you've never worked a day of your life in retail??
Ted, you're a [bleeping bleep}. [Rant rant rant the customer is always wrong rant rant rant]
You had a cheap part break this time. I'm personally hoping for a backlight to go out next time.
[edits by bweels for language]
What's the name of your shop? I want to avoid it, and you.
Interesting that Mr. Landau had a better experience at the independent store. Seems that any time I call the independents (here in the Dallas area, or in North Carolina where I previously lived), it's like they are doing me some huge favor just to answer the phone! Even if I have a purchase order in my hand!
The Apple Stores here have seemed eager to help without ever being pushy.
The only item I have had to bring in to Apple was my first iPod, and that twice. Both times, they resolved the matter quickly and very much to my satisfaction.
Hi!
I'd like to reply to a couple of the comments:
1. It is true that Apple would likely not have covered the repair even if I had AppleCare - because the damage was due to an accident on my part. The same thing would be the case if I (for example) threw the display out the window. Makes sense. I should have clarified that. My (slightly muddled) point on this matter was that even if it had been a covered repair, it would not have mattered, because I was unable to get AppleCare.
2. The fact that the cost of some repair is more than the cost of AppleCare (e.g, $800 to fix A vs. $300 to get AppleCare for A) is largely besides the point. The invalid conclusion is that it therefore pays to get AppleCare. But this fails to take into consideration that A may never need to be repaired at all. AppleCare (or any extended warranty) is a gamble. You are gambling that an expensive repair will be needed before you replace the equipment. All I was saying is that this is generally a poor gamble. Sometimes you will win. But in the long run, if you always take it, you will lose.
3. I indeed was not suggesting that Apple should have paid for the cost of the repair. Just that they should provide a way to make such repairs more in line with what they truly cost.
Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:14 pm Subject: Re: Similar experience with iBook
QuoteAnonymous wrote:
I had a similar experience by tripping over the charger wire with my iBook causing it to fly to the carpet, just breaking off the tip of metal latch hook. $450 estimate to replace the entire display lid of the iBook. In my case my independent authorized Apple service facility could not order the hook to perform the replacement. They were only allowed to return the iBook to Apple. No satisfaction at the Genius Bar. Now using a large rubber band to close the iBook and put it to sleep.
Not defending Apple here, but this particular repair may necessitate a lid replacement, mainly because to get to the latch you have to disassemble most of the display itself (which probably runs a high risk of damaging the LCD). That's a tough part of the lid to get to.
Just a thought. May be completely wrong.
Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:56 pm Subject: Celebrity status doesn't count?
My take on this article is that the author thinks that Apple is charging way too much for simple things. It is the truth. There is no good reason not to sell him a part. I have had Apple fix out of warranty and they are way over priced. I don't have a third party apple dealer in my area so I have no choice. It doesn't help Apple image to be costly for no reason. They need to understand that nickel and dimeing over repairs is a bad idea. If something is broken, and they get overpriced repairs next time that a new product is going to be bought they won't get the sale. It is one of the reasons the my local school district decided not to go with apple anymore, costly repairs and parts.
Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:52 pm Subject: Apple arrogance
Apple makes products that the faithful love, of which I am one. There may come a time though when the Apple monopoly won't mean as much as it does now. Many, who have not had the best experiences with service after the sale, may choose an alternative.
The world is strewn with once great companies whose products are no longer those of choice for a particular application.
Apple, what goes around comes around.
Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:37 pm Subject: Reply to your comments
Thanks for the link. I will bookmark it for next time.
As for the column being a rant, I take a bit of an exception. Surely, there can be a distinction between justifiably critical and a rant. I was hoping the column was more in the former category.
As for "company's burn customers on replacement OEM parts" - sure, I know. But usually not to the tune of 8X what an independent would charge. And many people are not as familiar with their options for getting a computer repaired as they are with a car. This seemed worth pointing out.
- Ted