Jury Slams Samsung as Copycat, Hands Apple Massive Win [Update]

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Apple in Court

A federal jury has handed a massive win to Apple in the company’s epic patent battle with Samsung. The jury decided that most of Samsung’s accused products violated several of Apple’s patents, and sided with Apple on claims ranging from trade dress to infringement on utility patents.

The jury decided in favor of Apple on all infringement claims by Samsung, apparently based on exhaustion. In other words, the jury decided that Apple has not infringed on Samsung’s standards-essential patents, despite the fact that Apple’s iPhone can’t do its job as a phone without using technologies covered by some of those patents.

It appears that this decision was based on the principal of exhaustion, meaning that Samsung had already been paid for its standards-essential patents through the patent licenses owned by the companies who made the components Apple purchased to supply wireless functions.

To summarize: Samsung infringed left and right on Apple’s utility patents, design patents, and trade dress. Not all products were found to infringe, but most did. At the same time, the jury decided that Apple infringed on none of Samsung’s patents. None. At all.

Also, only one of Apple’s patent was found not to be infringed—the ‘889 design patent that Apple accused Samsung of infringing with the Galaxy Tab 10.1. We’re working up separate coverage of this issue, as it is a complex one.

Damages

The jury awarded Apple more than $1.05 billion in damages, while awarding Samsung nothing. This is less than the $2.5 billion that Apple had asked for, but it’s a staggeringly large award. That amount might or might not be trebled—we’re awaiting clarification on the issue.

Inducement

Interestingly, some of Samsung’s devices such as the Nexus S 4G that were found not to infringe on some counts, were roped back in and found to infringe under the charge of inducement.

A rough explanation for “inducement” is that while specific infringement may not have occurred, Samsung was found guilty of setting up conditions that caused infringement to occur.

Hypothetically speaking, the jury is saying that while this or that feature didn’t specifically exist, Samsung deliberately put those features in an environment where the remaining features existed and/or where it knew other parties (e.g., users, or say, carriers) would have the tools to activate an inducing feature knowing full well that the result would infringe on Apple’s patents.

This aspect of the ruling could mean that Google should be concerned regarding Android’s infringement of Apple’s patents in general as an inducing component of infringement across the industry. This could be a very real—and to Google’s lawyers, a very scary—shot across the bow. This could perhaps place a dark shadow over Google’s legal team.

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Comments

mrmwebmax

+

I absolutely envy everyone here that owns Apple stock. It will be interesting to see what this does to the stock price. My guess is that it will go through the roof.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

On the trade dress issue… They only got a “yes” on Fascinate, Galaxy S i9000, S 4G, Showcase, Mesmerize, Vibrant. Blanket no on the tablets.

BurmaYank

Is Apple still mandated to take out huge ads in prominent UK journals declaring that Samsung did NOT copy iOS devices?

BurmaYank

$1,051.855 million damages owed to Apple by Samsung, so far (before any trebling).

mrmwebmax

+

On the trade dress issue? They only got a ?yes? on Fascinate, Galaxy S i9000, S 4G, Showcase, Mesmerize, Vibrant. Blanket no on the tablets.

OMG, you’re right! Total FAIL! by Apple’s lawyers!

Then again, when you consider how the iPad has an absolute lock on tablets, while Apple and Samsung battle it out over smartphones, I’d say the far more important victories for Apple relate to smartphones.

But, hey, just keep seeing those silver linings in clouds of Samsung-failed litigation.

BurmaYank

(duplicated posting, iPad bug again!)

Lee Dronick

Is Apple still mandated to take out huge ads in prominent UK journals declaring that Samsung did NOT copy iOS devices?

Different jurisdiction of course, as is South Korea, but now Apple may be able to appeal that United Kingdom ruling and win.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

The best analysis I’ve seen says that TouchWiz is the problem here. That’s why the Nexus S escaped some of the claims. I don’t like the software patents. I don’t like the design patents. The one thing that may make this palatable is that the low hanging fruit for Apple are the OEMs straying from Google’s stock Android experience.

Google could certainly just throw Sammie under the bus and say that Sammie just tried to make their Android phones more iPhone like, and paid the price.

As far as damages, it turned out to be cheaper than licensing. And if they’re not infringing (as much) in the current crop of products—there is much more clear visual distinction with larger screens, etc.—might be prudent to make Apple sue again and get an even smaller percentage.

Lee Dronick

I absolutely envy everyone here that owns Apple stock. It will be interesting to see what this does to the stock price. My guess is that it will go through the roof.

Currently $674

By the way my AAPL dividend check came in a few days ago.

other side

I absolutely envy everyone here that owns Apple stock. It will be interesting to see what this does to the stock price. My guess is that it will go through the roof.

It’ll be appealed.  No company is just going to roll over and pay out that kind of cash (no matter how blatant the crime).

This battle has only started.

Magic Word: “ill-omened”.  Hmmm….

BurmaYank

Apple was not the only huge winner. 

Florian Mueller has thus also won his credibility duel on TMO with Bosco!  (Fairly decisively, too, from where I see it!)

ibuck

South Korea found Samsung guilty too. The Seoul District Court ordered each side to pay small damage amounts and banned sales in South Korea of Apple’s iPhone 4 and iPad 2, Samsung’s Galaxy SII and Galaxy Nexus smartphones and Galaxy Tab and Galaxy 10.1 tablets. But appeals are probably forthcoming.

www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/business/korea-apple-samsung/index.html

@BurmaYank:  I skip Bosco’s comments. I suspect most TMO readers ignore them as well.

daemon

Wow! Amazing lightning fast decsion by the Jury! So now that Apple’s design patent on the rectangle has been upheld by a Jury, what do you guys think the most popular shape phones not made by Apple will be?

I’m going with septagons!

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/24/3266653/samsung-todays-apple-trial-statement-loss-american-consumer

jfbiii
jfbiii

The real win for Apple isn’t the money. The real win is that Samsung has to change its tag line from “Designed by Apple in California” to “Designed by Lawyers in South Korea.”

aardman

I think the quick deliberation was because the jury of ordinary people (no design experts, no marketing experts, no corporate bigwigs) were thinking all along “Jeez, you just look at the damn devices and I’d be really stupid if I allowed myself to be convinced that there was no copying going on here.”  That sentiment probably underlined the whole deliberation process and the jurors just went yup, yup, yup as each item in the questionnaire was covered.

Yes, sometimes a picture is really worth a thousand words.

Lancashire-Witch

Perhaps the next Samsung smartphone will look more like a Blackberry. grin

mrmwebmax

+

I think the quick deliberation was because the jury of ordinary people (no design experts, no marketing experts, no corporate bigwigs) were thinking all along ?Jeez, you just look at the damn devices and I?d be really stupid if I allowed myself to be convinced that there was no copying going on here.?? That sentiment probably underlined the whole deliberation process and the jurors just went yup, yup, yup as each item in the questionnaire was covered.

Yes, sometimes a picture is really worth a thousand words.

I agree. C’mon, all it takes is common sense to look at the timelines Apple presented: Here’s what Samsung products looked like before iOS products, and here’s what they looked like afterward.”

Agreed completely.

I’ve said this here a bazillion times before: If Microsoft could create their own mobile OS, completely different than iOS with hardware manufacturers making handsets completely different than Apple, then Android/Goolge/Samsung?etc. could have done so as well. But they didn’t, and good for Apple defending itself. And winning.

aardman

So now that Apple?s design patent on the rectangle has been upheld by a Jury

Sure, you can be a glib smart aleck about it, but Samsung, like Nokia or HTC or a few other mfrs could have chosen a rectangle that is different from Apple’s rectangle but noooooo they just had to be unimaginative, shameless copycats.

Mercedes Benz has exclusive rights over a three pointed star, BMW has rights to two adjacent ovals, and I don’t hear you complaining about those.  I’m willing to bet National Geographic owns the upright yellow rectangle.  Lots of companies have patent or trademark rights over seemingly generic geometric figures.

mrmwebmax

+

Wow! Amazing lightning fast decsion by the Jury! So now that Apple?s design patent on the rectangle has been upheld by a Jury, what do you guys think the most popular shape phones not made by Apple will be?

I?m going with septagons!

Last I saw, Apple has nothing against the Microsoft/Nokia partnership bringing uniquely-styled Windows Phones to the public, despite the fact that they’re rectangular. Respond to that with anything rational and I will be absolutely amazed.

daemon

Perhaps the next Samsung smartphone will look more like a Blackberry.

.... Do any of you actually think before making that stupid comment? Samsung hasn’t stopped making qwerty phones.

http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SPH-M580ZKABST

daemon

Last I saw, Apple has nothing against the Microsoft/Nokia partnership bringing uniquely-styled Windows Phones to the public, despite the fact that they?re rectangular. Respond to that with anything rational and I will be absolutely amazed.

Apple is terrified of Microsoft. Or it’s possible that the cross-licesning agreements they have already cover anything they could sue over.

BTW, what was Apple doing before the Nokia-Microsoft partnership? Suing the hell out of Nokia for daring to make a rectangular touchscreen phone. What happened right after Nokia entered their partnership with Microsoft? Apple dropped all of the suits.

Terrin

Last I saw, Apple has nothing against the Microsoft/Nokia partnership bringing uniquely-styled Windows Phones to the public, despite the fact that they?re rectangular. Respond to that with anything rational and I will be absolutely amazed.

I was in best buy a while ago, standing in the phone section, and I heard several people refer to the Samsung phone on display as an iPhone. Unless you picked it up, or read the display, the phones looked very close.


Moreover, you are right. Apple is not giving Microsoft a hard time. It even gave Microsoft a license to its patents. This is likely because Apple and Microsoft though fierce competitors respect one another. Both actually innovate (Metro is innovative). Further, Apple actually offered Samsung a license as well. Finally, Nokia and Apple worked out their differences.

daemon

This is likely because Apple and Microsoft though fierce competitors respect one another. Both actually innovate (Metro is innovative).

What are you doing?! They’re going to banish you as a “Micro$oftie” if you’re not careful! /sarcasm

RonMacGuy

Wow daemon, you still haven’t taken that chill pill yet, have you?

Give it a rest, man.  Apple won and Samsung lost.  May get overturned in appeal, but for now just give it a rest dude.

mrmwebmax

+

mrmwebmax said:

Last I saw, Apple has nothing against the Microsoft/Nokia partnership bringing uniquely-styled Windows Phones to the public, despite the fact that they?re rectangular. Respond to that with anything rational and I will be absolutely amazed.

Apple is terrified of Microsoft. Or it?s possible that the cross-licesning agreements they have already cover anything they could sue over.

Oh PLEASE tell me you are freakin’ joking. What, do you think this is 1995? Windows 95 handily crushed Mac OS into dust, no argument. Likewise, in the server room, there was no room for Apple, period.

But then the 2000s happened.

It started with the iPod. Suddenly, if a consumer wanted an MP3 player, there was only one choice.Then, in 2007, there was iPhone.

Today, Apple’s iPhone business—I repeat, JUST its iPhone business—is bigger than ALL of Microsoft combined:

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-02-04/tech/31023911_1_steve-ballmer-iphone-microsoft-ceo

It would seem to me that Microsoft is in need of fear. If perhaps I am wrong, please enlighten me, and include links as I have done.

daemon

Give it a rest, man.  Apple won and Samsung lost.  May get overturned in appeal, but for now just give it a rest dude.

This is the biggest news in years and you want me to just chill? Wow!

daemon

It would seem to me that Microsoft is in need of fear. If perhaps I am wrong, please enlighten me, and include links as I have done.

This is why Apple is terrorfied of Microsoft:

http://www.macobserver.com/columns/thebackpage/2004/20040708.shtml

It’s why they have cross licensing agreements. It’s why they aren’t sueing Microsoft, it’s why Nokia went with Microsoft and not Android.

RonMacGuy

This is the biggest news in years and you want me to just chill? Wow!

No, feel free to freak out over the news I guess.  But you are becoming troll-like and we don’t want that, do we?  You may become like the other guy around here.  First the oft-repeated slam about Apple patenting the rectangle, then the insult for making a ‘stupid comment’, then the ages-old MS-Apple reference, then the insult to Terrin about becoming a Micro$oftie.  I mean, really?  How old are you?

daemon

First the oft-repeated slam about Apple patenting the rectangle,

That is exactly what Apple did! They patented the rectangle, not the rectangle with rounded corners, not a thin phone with rounded corners and uneven parallel lines. No, they patented the rectangle, the US Patent office approved it, and the Jury just confirmed it.

Apple ownes the rectangle.

RonMacGuy

It?s why they have cross licensing agreements. It?s why they aren?t sueing Microsoft

Not sure why this means that Apple is ‘terrified’ of Microsoft.  Apple doesn’t sue MS, and MS doesn’t sue Apple.  That’s kind of why cross licensing agreements exist, isn’t it?  Apple is HARDLY ‘terrified’ of MS - based on Ballmer’s recent statements, it’s obvious that MS is terrified of Apple - all Ballmer wants to do is follow Apple and do whatever Apple does.

?We are trying to make absolutely clear we are not going to leave any space uncovered to Apple,? Ballmer told CRN following the Worldwide Partner Conference in Toronto on Monday. ?We are not. No space uncovered that is Apple?s.?

Funny stuff.  Doesn’t really sound much like a leader to me.  And the iPhone is bigger than Microsoft.  Period.

Terrin

What are you doing?! They?re going to banish you as a ?Micro$oftie? if you?re not careful! /sarcasm

I will chance it, and let me clarify. I wouldn’t put Windows prior to Metro in the innovative camp. Yet, the X-Box and Metro is unique in a good way. I am not ditching my Apple eco system any time soon though.

I also don’t get people’s fascinationwith Samsung. The products might look pretty (some of them anyway), but they are made out of the cheapest materials and cost more than the iPhone. I have, however, noticed a push by carriers to more prominently display Samsung’s products.

mrmwebmax

+

That is exactly what Apple did! They patented the rectangle, not the rectangle with rounded corners, not a thin phone with rounded corners and uneven parallel lines. No, they patented the rectangle, the US Patent office approved it, and the Jury just confirmed it.

Apple ownes the rectangle.

If Apple had truly “patented the rectangle,’ as you state, where are Apple’s lawsuits against every book publisher that ever existed? After all, from The Bible to Harry Potter, they’re pretty rectangular, right?

Been to Las Vegas, or a friend’s house for penny annie? Be it a Bee, Bicycle (my favorite), or other deck, it will be a rectangular. same with any Windows phone built by Nokia. All rectangles. Your argument is unfounded and pathetic.

Lee Dronick

I have, however, noticed a push by carriers to more prominently display Samsung?s products.

Payola?

daemon

If Apple had truly ?patented the rectangle,? as you state, where are Apple?s lawsuits against every book publisher that ever existed? After all, from The Bible to Harry Potter, they?re pretty rectangular, right?

Nice Reductio ad absurdum, however you are ignoring that it is a design patent on cell phones, not books… My arguement is that the design patent should be invalid because of prior art.

Lancashire-Witch

This is the biggest news in years and you want me to just chill? Wow!

I want you to be just happy, daemon,  and still able to recognise a joke (even a poor one).
It’s quite easy- just look for the grin at the end of the line.

On a more serious note. I saw this on the BBC -

” The jury ruled that some of Samsung’s handsets, including its Galaxy S 4G model, had infringed Apple’s design patents for the look of of its iPhone including the system it uses to display text and icons.

However, it dismissed the allegation that the South Korean firm’s tablets had infringed the rectangular design used for Apple’s iPad. “

So I’m not clear about the “rectangle” .

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

Apple was not the only huge winner.?

Florian Mueller has thus also won his credibility duel on TMO with Bosco!? (Fairly decisively, too, from where I see it!)

I am not paid to offer my opinion or analysis, nor does money shape what I say. I am not a paid shill for anyone.

Coincidentally, Google’s amended reply to Judge Alsup’s request basically shows that Florian was the one guy doing exactly that—writing shill articles for money—on behalf of a party in that lawsuit.

You can evaluate it however you like. I just bring it to your attention. In light of the evidence, if you continue to site Florian as a credible source, it reflects badly on you. That’s all.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

But you are becoming troll-like and we don?t want that, do we?? You may become like the other guy around here.?

I think it was a year ago that Bryan asked RonMacGuy and me to not engage in personal attacks on here against other participants on TMO. I respected Bryan’s request.

Bryan Chaffin

Yes, you did. Thanks, Brad. I will thank everyone else to do the same.

Bryan Chaffin

Coincidentally, Google?s amended reply to Judge Alsup?s request basically shows that Florian was the one guy doing exactly that?writing shill articles for money?on behalf of a party in that lawsuit.

I take great issue with this. The filings in that case showed that Mr. Mueller had been hired and paid as a consultant, something already known. The filing did not in any way show, prove, or address the idea that he was writing shill articles.

Florian may have been writing shill articles, but that was simply not addressed in the Oracle v. Google trial.

It’s quite possible that Mr. Mueller’s written opinions were entirely independent. Indeed, based on his frequent criticisms of Oracle, the state of American patents, and even software patents in general, I suspect this is the case, and that he was hired as a consultant based on his opinions, not to buy public exposure of those opinions.

Should he have consistently exposed the fact that he had done consulting for Oracle whenever he wrote about the subject? Yes! Did he? No. But he had previously acknowledged this.

In any event, he’s not on Apple’s payroll that we know of, and the reality is that he has been right far more often than he has been wrong on all of the cases he has commented on.

Proof, pudding, and all that.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

In any event, he?s not on Apple?s payroll that we know of, and the reality is that he has been right far more often than he has been wrong on all of the cases he has commented on.

Yeah, well, there’s a story in the Lodsys fiasco. I know a couple developers who, if left alone in a room for 10 minutes, would do serious bodily harm to him for shilling for Lodsys in an attempt to get them as a paying customer. Because that’s what he did, Bryan. He took the Enderle model and added the shakedown to it.

mrmwebmax

+

mrmwebmax said:

If Apple had truly ?patented the rectangle,? as you state, where are Apple?s lawsuits against every book publisher that ever existed? After all, from The Bible to Harry Potter, they?re pretty rectangular, right?

Nice Reductio ad absurdum, however you are ignoring that it is a design patent on cell phones, not books? My arguement is that the design patent should be invalid because of prior art.

Please see my final argument, which you did NOT quote, were I state:

....same with any Windows phone built by Nokia. All rectangles. Your argument is unfounded and pathetic.

We are not talking about a patent on a geometric shape, as, again, Apple would have also taken on Nokia/MS, as I stated in my original message, which you selectively quoted.

John Molloy

...

John Molloy

Bryan Chaffin said:

In any event, he?s not on Apple?s payroll that we know of, and the reality is that he has been right far more often than he has been wrong on all of the cases he has commented on.

Yeah, well, there?s a story in the Lodsys fiasco. I know a couple developers who, if left alone in a room for 10 minutes, would do serious bodily harm to him for shilling for Lodsys in an attempt to get them as a paying customer. Because that?s what he did, Bryan. He took the Enderle model and added the shakedown to it.

Er. He recently said that he is NOT on Apple’s payroll. This was in response to the stuff kicked up with the Oracle / Google trial.

He was on Oracle’s payroll but not on Apple’s

Bryan Chaffin

Apple ownes the rectangle.

Daemon, I think I’ve addressed this quite well on numerous occasions (I realize you disagree), but I just thought of a more succinct way of putting it:

When Apple sues a rectangle maker, you’ll have a legitimate complaint. When Apple sues over a device like the older device you recently pointed out, I will merrily join you in criticizing Apple.

The reality is that Apple hasn’t. The company has sued over devices that look like the iPhone and iPad. The list of devices Apple has not sued over that are rectangular and/or have rounded corners is hundreds, possibly thousands long. The number of device Apple has sued for design patent infringement and trade dress is about two score, and all of them bear a strong relationship to Apple’s devices.

On top of that, if Apple did try to assert its design patents against, say, the HTC Touch Smartphone, it would get laughed out of court.

You may see Apple’s design patents as overly broad and nonsensical, but Apple has used them against only those devices that look like its own. If it tries otherwise, the courts will (properly) spank its corporate bum.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

Er. He recently said that he is NOT on Apple?s payroll. This was in response to the stuff kicked up with the Oracle / Google trial.

He was on Oracle?s payroll but not on Apple?s

He has a history of being coy about his customers. See “Microsoft” when we was carrying water on their behalf in support of SCO. The dude has a complicated history.

Were he just me visiting a friendly little website and arguing with other visitors, that would be one thing. But he posts something and then is reprinted by thousands of outlets as a trusted source, patent expert, German expert, umlaut aficionado, open source “expert”, blah, blah, blah. He gets paid by companies with huge interests in shaping opinions for shaping opinions. He is not the least bit transparent about it, nor the least bit ashamed for being caught with his pants down. Oracle only hired him officially because of the tornado he caused last summer where even our very own erudite, highly trained, and most upright moral exemplar (and I mean that all in a good way) Nemo was quoting him saying Oracle’s case against Google was a slam dunk and Android was over. The payment was a quid pro quo for services previously rendered. That is how the guy works.

P.S. Bryan… Apple does not own rectangles or associated trade dress for tablets. Only for phones. Perhaps the weirdest part of the verdict.

b9bot

After hours trading of Apple up $12 to $674 a share.
Can’t be more happy about this verdict. It’s not about the Billion dollars, it’s about copycat companies using Apples R&D and duplicating the look and feel of Apple’s products to the extreme and calling it there own when it’s not.

Lancashire-Witch

@ Bosco.  A UK Judge and US Jury both seem to have concluded that Samsunk did not copy the iPad. As I remember the Judge said the Galaxy wasn’t “cool enough” to be confused with an iPad.

I interpret that to mean that making a poor copy isn’t enough to get you in trouble in Court.  Is that what you mean by “weird”? Or am I missing something?

Who dares

Well Brad are you now going o eat humble pie as yet another of you many predictions has failed.
Not very good with the crystal balls are you…

Who dares

Interesting read here Sweeping victory

Paul Goodwin

Samsung even copied Apple’s Store design. One block away, minimalist design, blue shirted employees, same packaging design. They are world leading knockoff artists with a big bank roll. They copied Rolex watch designs too. That his was fromiDowloadblog. I’d put the link in here but the TMO comment boxes are iPad unfriendly-you can’t paste anything into them.

Apple is afraid of Microsoft….Jaheezus - ridiculous!!  MS has been flat for a decade, and is scrambling to figure out how to keep from shrinking into oblivion.

MacFrogger

Bosco said:

Were he just me visiting a friendly little website and arguing with other visitors, that would be one thing.

Bosco: you can be hilariously funny at times!  And as many here are quick to point out, you can be soooo wrong at other times.  But I at least appreciate your presence here because at times I think you are spot on - or at least you give the rest of us food for thought.  Like this analysis:

But he [Florian Mueller] posts something and then is reprinted by thousands of outlets as a trusted source, patent expert, German expert, umlaut aficionado, open source ?expert?, blah, blah, blah. He gets paid by companies with huge interests in shaping opinions for shaping opinions. He is not the least bit transparent about it, nor the least bit ashamed for being caught with his pants down. Oracle only hired him officially because of the tornado he caused last summer where even our very own erudite, highly trained, and most upright moral exemplar (and I mean that all in a good way) Nemo was quoting him saying Oracle?s case against Google was a slam dunk and Android was over. The payment was a quid pro quo for services previously rendered. That is how the guy works.

IMO, you are spot on here - this is why Consumer Reports, for example, accepts zero dollars in ads or other corporate $$ from any of the companies whose products they write about. Because it is an INHERENT conflict of interest; they know it would “taint” their reputation. In other words, Mueller may be writing impartially at times, or he may be writing “under the influence” (and may not even perceive the difference), but if he wants to be taken as an impartial source he cannot take corporate $$. 

And therein my friends lies the “Blogger’s Dilemma”: How the heck can I monetize what I do as passion and interest in a subject do not pay the bills?

Lee Dronick

TMO comment boxes are not iPad friendly and won’t let you paste text?

I thought that I was the only one having that problem, is there anyone else experiencing it in addition to Paul and I? Also if you put the cursor into previously entered text you can not enter any text there.

daemon

The reality is that Apple hasn?t. The company has sued over devices that look like the iPhone and iPad.

Bryan, the thing is, to me, the Galaxy S line of phones don’t look like the iPhone… They’re bigger, they have completely different way of interacting with installed apps, they’re different colors, different materials, completely different type of screens, branding on the front of the phone. When I see a Galaxy S line phone, I’m never confused as to whether or not it’s an iPhone, it just doesn’t happen to me.

That being said; my friend Teena from San Jose (Dental Hygenist) flew into Milwaukee to visit and at the bar, after an enthusiastic hug, exlaimed that I got an iPhone upon seeing my vibrant (which has a metalic green back), to which I confusedly said no… and then pointed to the prominent lettering on the back of my phone and said “I got a Galaxy S.” She really loves her iPhone and always tells me to get one myself…

MacFrogger

Good morning Lee!

I have had the same problem too!

skipaq

@Lee, I have had the same problem with the text boxes on TMO when using my iPad. On the iMac there is no problem; so this is related to iOS.

In reading the verdict on the various jury findings, I believe it isn’t accurate to say this is a victory on “rectangles” for Apple. There are iOS UI elements involved for one thing. For another, why is it that some Samsung rectangle phones were found not to infringe while others do? It simply just isn’t a shape issue.

Hopefully, the two CEOs will sit down once again and work this thing out. At least they have the monetary award as a starting point for a licensing deal.

Lee Dronick

I doubt that Apple has been sitting on its haunches in regards to the iPhone, and iPad design hoping that the Law will protect them from copycats. Suppose Apple lost this case with Samsung, but the next iPhone and iPad could be a giant leap forward, another revolutionary design that leaves the copycats behind.

BurmaYank

“TMO comment boxes are not iPad friendly and won?t let you paste text?
I thought that I was the only one having that problem, is there anyone else experiencing it in addition to Paul and I? Also if you put the cursor into previously entered text you can not enter any text there.”

Me too. 

Usually, I find that nothing copied elsewhere (i.e. - things which would be perfectly paste-able into that other app source or into SOME other nonTMO-Comment webpage text-entry places) is paste-able into my opened TMO-Comment text-entry box (although often iPad “clipboard” text contents CAN be successfully pasted into e.g. that TMO-Comment box’s “URL”-tab’s “Enter the URL Hyperlink” text-entry box).  But occasionally, I think I have been able to paste text from elsewhere there.

And when that freeze-out happens, nothing I’ve copied from within my opened TMO-Comment text-entry box gets registered into my iPad’s “clipboard (I know that because, if I exit my browser and open a text-editing app, whatever will get pasted into that text-entry location will be whatever was previously paste-able, before I tried to copy text from that TMO-Comment text-entry box.)

This happens under specific circumstances (which I have not yet fully identified), such as when something I’ve done as I’ve entered text into the opened TMO-Comment text-entry box has caused the keyboard’s “Shift” keys to turn either outlined-blue or solid blue.

Sometimes, I’ve been able to work around that cursor freeze-out you mentioned by touching the keyboard’s outlined-blue/solid blue “Shift” keys and turning them back to “de-selected”, or else by touching the keyboard’s “hide-keyboard” icon.  But usually that that cursor freeze-out just happens all over again.

Que malo.

BurmaYank

“Hopefully, the two CEOs will sit down once again and work this thing out. At least they have the monetary award as a starting point for a licensing deal.”

Maybe so, but some of these infringed Apple features should NEVER be licensable, no matter how much money is involved.

In fact, Apple would be suicidally crazy to license most of them, IMHO.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

Works great from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (7 inch). I’m glad Sammie didn’t copy Apple on web browsing problems!

Works great from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (7 inch). I’m glad Sammie didn’t copy Apple on web browsing problems.

Works great from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (7 inch). I’m glad Sammie didn’t copy Apple on web browsing problems.

Copied and pasted twice.

Lee Dronick

BurmaYank, the TMO, and others having the iPad comment problem. I have tried it with iOS browers other than Safari and it happens with them as well.

BurmaYank

“BurmaYank, the TMO, and others having the iPad comment problem. I have tried it with iOS browers other than Safari and it happens with them as well.”

It seems to be just a TMO-Comment text-entry box”-specific problem only on iOS devices.

And it hasn’t seem to have happened in TMO Forum text-entry boxes in my iPad.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

BurmaYank, the TMO, and others having the iPad comment problem. I have tried it with iOS browers other than Safari and it happens with them as well.

Well, of course it does. On iOS, Apple only approves alternate browsers that use its built-in UIWebView. That is the price of your walled garden.

Now, on Android… Something amazing has happened in the past couple of weeks. A natively coded Firefox shipped. For all the users who were stuck with the old stock Browser and couldn’t upgrade to Chrome, Firefox is like an unending supply of crack without any of the downsides normally associated. It makes browsing on an older FroYo and Gingerbread device really nice.

BurmaYank

”...some of these infringed/stolen Apple features should NEVER be licensable, no matter how much money is involved. - In fact, Apple would be suicidally crazy to license most of them, IMHO.”

Just as, IMHO, it seems to have been just about suicidally crazy of Apple to have licensed the Mac’s UI to M$ for copying into M$ Windows, before the return of SJ.

BurmaYank

“Is Apple still mandated to take out huge ads in prominent UK journals declaring that Samsung did NOT copy iOS devices?”

“Different jurisdiction of course, as is South Korea, but now Apple may be able to appeal that United Kingdom ruling and win.”

“Apple CEO Tim Cook sent this memo to the company?s corporate employees late on Friday after the federal jury ruled that Samsung had willfully copied Apple” in bringing some of its smartphones and tablets to market, saying he hopes it sends a message that ?stealing isn?t right.?


  “Today was an important day for Apple and for innovators everywhere.
Many of you have been closely following the trial against Samsung in San Jose for the past few weeks. We chose legal action very reluctantly and only after repeatedly asking Samsung to stop copying our work.  
  For us this lawsuit has always been about something much more important than patents or money. It?s about values. We value originality and innovation and pour our lives into making the best products on earth. And we do this to delight our customers, not for competitors to flagrantly copy.
  We owe a debt of gratitude to the jury who invested their time in listening to our story. We were thrilled to finally have the opportunity to tell it. The mountain of evidence presented during the trial showed that Samsung?s copying went far deeper than we knew.
  The jury has now spoken. We applaud them for finding Samsung?s behavior willful and for sending a loud and clear message that stealing isn?t right.
  I am very proud of the work that each of you do.
  Today, values have won and I hope the whole world listens.
- Tim”

This entire message of Tim’s is, instead, what Apple should post in its mandated ad notices, to be taken in the prominent UK journals specified (i.e. - The Financial Times, The Daily Mail, The Guardian, Mobile Magazine and T3 magazine) & on all of Apple’s European Union websites, in accordance with this ruling by UK Judge Colin Birss that Apple must place notices stating that Samsung hadn?t copied Apple?s iDevices

ibuck

Burma, wouldn’t it be amusing if Apple posted ads like:

A court in the United States has fined Samsung $1 billion for willfully violating Apple patents and trade dress (iPhone appearance & packaging).

The Seoul District Court in South Korea has found Samsung has not only copied Apple but has banned sales of Samsung’s Galaxy SII and Galaxy Nexus smartphones and Galaxy Tab and Galaxy 10.1 tablet computers.

However, UK Judge Colin Birss requires Apple to post this notice:

  “Samsung has not copied Apple’s iDevices.

Lancashire-Witch

@ibuck & BurmaYank

As I said in an earlier comment on this story.  A US Jury and an UK Judge seem to agree that the Samsung tablet is not a knockoff of the iPad.

The UK Judge required Apple to post a notice to the effect that Samsung didn’t copy the iPad…..  not “has not copied Apple’s iDevices”.

Here’s the story by Bryan. And he mentions it again in this story. - ” Also, only one of Apple?s patent was found not to be infringed?the ?889 design patent that Apple accused Samsung of infringing with the Galaxy Tab 10.1….”

And, as Bosco remarked in a P.S. Apple doesn’t own “trade dress” for tablets.

I don’t know why the US Jury didn’t think Apple’s patent had been infringed; but the UK Judge gave his reason - The Samsung tablet was “not cool enough” .

Lancashire-Witch

Posting problems - and I’m not using an iPad!

Lancashire-Witch

...

jameskatt

Apple?s victory will mean MORE PHONE OPTIONS for consumers.

Samsung?s copycat actions are the same as if Chevy copied Ferrari?s 458 Spider ? making the same looking car, down to the colors, shape, seats, steering wheel, dashboard, radio, tire tread pattern, etc. All of Chevy?s models become variations of Ferrari?s 458 Spider in appearance. But by Ferrari winning a lawsuit against Chevy, Chevy is forced to create different looking cars ? such as the Corvette, Camaro, Volt, Malibu, Cruz, Sonic and Spark. This causes consumers to have more options.

Because of Apple?s win, there will be MORE PHONE OPTIONS. After all, Samsung still wants to make billions of dollars in the smartphone market. After all, Samsung still wants to sell more smartphones than Apple.

Samsung will just have to make different looking smartphones. It actually has to be more creative ? like MICROSOFT, Sony, and the car companies.

This is a win for consumers. And this is a win for America, where we value innovation, creativity, and individualism.

RonMacGuy

I think it was a year ago that Bryan asked RonMacGuy and me to not engage in personal attacks on here against other participants on TMO. I respected Bryan?s request.

Well, luckily, holding people responsible for their past statements and predictions does not qualify as a personal attack in my book. And, lately it seems I’m not alone in doing so, which is nice to see. Not sure if reminding someone that they were wrong is a personal attack. Can we get a ruling, Bryan?

Sad thing is, if everyone who posted their opinions on TMO were less cynical, less condescending, and used less “emotionally charged” wording, TMO would be a much happier place. Yet, it continues, and many TMO followers are leaving for other websites for their Apple commentary. It may be time for me to do so as well. But when someone posts their ‘opinions’ as ‘facts’ and does so in a way to degrade others and to act superior to others, all while predicting doom on Apple, there leaves no choice for others to hold them accountable and to remind them how wrong they have been.

If someone is being troll-like in the way they are posting comments, is it a personal attack to call them out?

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

If someone is being troll-like in the way they are posting comments, is it a personal attack to call them out?

It’s lazy and tired. We disagree. I have honest opinions. I assume you do to. You don’t have to be a jerk about it with comments like that directed at me, especially now that I direct absolutely nothing at you. I’ve been here since before Day 1, even advertised on the site that eventually became TMO. So I won’t be going away. I just think that you could muster enough class to respect what Bryan asked for from both of us. And then maybe after a period of that, you’d be worth my time engaging in conversation again.

RonMacGuy

I don’t expect you to go away Brad. All I’ve ever wanted was for you to just acknowledge how wrong you’ve been on so many things, and how insulting you have been to Apple fans in general. But I suspect that your personality will never allow that to happen. You speak of class, yet you talk about Apple fans trading hand(censored)‘s for accessories, and Bryan agrees that you are not personally attacking people here. Odd. Immature references to a lawyer that you don’t even know. Immature references to market “penetration”. I mean, really? All to rile people up. Which is why I reference you as a troll, as by definition that is how you are acting when you talk like that.

But if TMO leadership is OK with it, then I should be too I guess.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

Hand shakes, Ron. Cigarettes and hand shakes. I have no idea why that post was censored. Intruder was on a roll that day.

Your obsessive archiving of my musings reminds me of a guy I once worked with at a little company. Nice guy, probably not the best employee in the world, well, basically not effective, and he got canned one day. That’s not the part that you remind me of. I’m sure you are very good at managing your $60M engineering budget.

Anyway, I was tasked with going through his computer and gathering any relevant documents, email, contacts, etc. so the next guy could hit the ground running. What I found in Safari was the most elaborate organization and categorization of online porn I’ve ever seen or could ever imagine. He had it broken down by “amateurs”, “dirty blondes”, “bleach blondes”, “2 on 1”, “inter-racial” (and that had quite the sub-categorizations), “size”. It was unreal, but quite the testament to his deep and expansive knowledge of the subject area. Had he only applied his skills to the revolution we were actually trying to create!

RonMacGuy

Hand shakes, right. We all know better. And yes, you’ve compared me to this other guy before. I remember. Although I have told you several times that it is quite easy to save the emails related to the dozen or so completely incorrect predictions of yours in the past (my favorite, as you know, is the ‘declining and mostly irrelevant iPad’), so I am far from your “obsessive archiving” implication. And, several others recently have taken great pride in reminding you of your past failed predictions, so I am not the only one. And, to our testament, you no longer make stupid predictions anymore (well, at least not as many), so maybe an old dog can be taught new tricks.

Applying your “obsessive archiving” comment right back at you, I’ll correct your now incorrect reference of my engineering budget. I’ve been promoted and now have resource planning responsibility for a larger business unit - $210M in gross spending globally with $80M of engineering credits, so a net of $130M.  Well, so far for 2013 CY budget, although our leadership tends to give us additional “challenge” for the upcoming budget.  But since you obviously respect me enough to remember my budget level, you may as well have my new figures for 2013.

The really sad thing about you Brad (since we are being brutally honest once again) is that you can really add value here if you just backed down a bit with your Apple hatred and bitterness. You offer a unique perspective, and I do value some of what you say, which is why I really don’t want to block you constantly. But so much of it is pathetic enough that you come across as a Samsung or Google employee simply trying to win people over from Apple products to your own. Look up the definition of ‘troll’ and look in the mirror. And with that, I will attempt to no longer make comments directly addressed to you.

jfbiii

For all the users who were stuck with the old stock Browser and couldn?t upgrade to Chrome, Firefox is like an unending supply of crack without any of the downsides normally associated. It makes browsing on an older FroYo and Gingerbread device really nice.

That’s good. Especially since almost none of those folks with FroYo and Gingerbread devices will be able to upgrade them to a newer version of Android.

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

That?s good. Especially since almost none of those folks with FroYo and Gingerbread devices will be able to upgrade them to a newer version of Android.

Untrue. A very popular Verizon phone, the Incredible II by HTC, has an ICS build in late testing. There will be several million people enjoying an ICS update in the coming weeks. Three are friends. I’ll let you know what they think of it.

And you know else Firefox for Android has? Bounce back. To me, it feels a notch slicker than in Safari on iPad or iPhone. And with a free add-on, it has full screen browsing, which is also oodles of awesome for dedicated web apps. Not quite as nice as being able to bookmark to your home screen and have it open full screen. But then again, Firefox’s full screen mode isn’t crippled by a previous generation JavaScript implementation either.

Intruder

I have no idea why that post was censored. Intruder was on a roll that day.

Just for the record, I have neither the desire nor the ability to censor posts on the article threads. That privilege is reserved for paid TMO staff.

Carry on with your regularly schedule bashing. wink

jfbiii

I guess we’ll see what the usage map for Android is in, say…6 months for phones. Maybe ICS will be at 50% then.

Psy

The stock will temporarily go up but in the long-run, Apple will drop to the bottom.

http://bit.ly/IC4m9t

+

Intruder

Ahh, yes. Applehaters.com. The bastion of credibility.

Paul Goodwin

I have very few problems typing, editing and pasting text on web pages using the iPad other than TMO’s.. There is something wrong with the design of the text boxes on these pages. I’ve sent messages about it in the past, but nobody at TMO support ever said anything except that they couldn’t reproduce the problem. Apparently they didn’t try very had since a lot of us have the same issue. Everyone should give them some feedback so they’ll actually work on the problem.

. Bosco, your comment about why we’re having this problem is again the result of either misunderstanding what is being discussed, your lack of real knowledge, or that the urge to irritate us just overwhelms you and gets the better of you. When in doubt, the simplest explanation is most likely correct….for you it’s all three reasons. You are among the best trolls that I’ve ever seen. Your ability to mix fact in with non-factual info to bash with is uncanny. The other trolls just pop in and leave a one-liner, unsubstantiated crack. Yours is littered with enough truth to make people believe it. You should have been a politician. You could actually be paid for this behavior.

RonMacGuy

OK, first of all, for the record, that wasn’t me.  And second, LMAO.

Very good, Paul!!

Paul Goodwin

Thanks. LOL

Bosco (Brad Hutchings)

Paul, I’m just pointing out that not everyone using a WebKit based mobile browser struggles with the things that iPad users struggle with. Another nice thing that Google did with Android and Chrome… When you’re typing, the keys on the virtual keypad reflect the case of the letter that will be typed next. How difficult would it be for Apple to just copy that behavior and make typing easier on the iPad and iPhone?

And Paul, I actually do know what I’m talking about with Safari mobile. Today, I spent about 5 hours with it dealing with its quirks for a web app that runs as beautifully on any Android phone and tablet as it does on the iPad. More beautifully, in fact, because I’m not having to spend as much effort working around limitations of Android Chrome and Firefox as I am Mobile Safari.

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