Microsoft?s Big New Strategy Is Shunned By Apple

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    Posted: 15 December 2010 01:15 AM #16

    DawnTreader - 15 December 2010 04:39 AM
    Apple II+ - 15 December 2010 03:58 AM
    mbeauch - 15 December 2010 03:17 AM

    It amazes me that MSFT though enough of Apple to save it.

    That’s a myth. Microsoft’s investment and agreement to make mac office were small commitments and don’t constitute saving Apple.  Microsoft simply needed to appear less of a monopoly because of antitrust scrutiny.

    That’s a big myth. IIRC, Apple caught Microsoft with its developer hand in the QuickTime code cookie jar. Rather than face Apple legal again, they chose to play nice. At the time, Apple had a $1 billion in cash on the books.


    DT, this is all I have to go by. I vaguely remember MSFT buying AAPL stock, but none of the details. You must remember that I am not a fanatic. DT, you know I respect you immensely, but this speech by SJ does not sound like Apple was doing very good at the time. Two people call it a myth and SJ calls it reality. Apple fans supposedly are classy people, did not sound like it to me in this video.

    http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

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    Posted: 15 December 2010 01:36 AM #17

    Apple was in financial trouble, but they also had tons of cash. 

    How much, well I guess it depends how you parse the financial statements, but as of the end of FY ‘96, per a quick Google search for old 10-K filings (and I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the records), Apple had $1.745B in cash/equivalents.  They had also declared a net loss of $816 million for the year.

    By the end of FY ‘97 (not long after the infamous Bill Gates-on-the-big-screen deal), Apple declared $1.459B in cash/equivalents, a $1.045B net loss, close to -30% YOY rev growth, a bit less than 20% drop in total assets, no dividend for the year (Apple issued dividends back then!), $951B in long-term debt, a drop in shareholders’ equity from $2B to $1.2B…

    If I were to make an objective analysis of this high-level data, I’d say yep, Apple is in serious, serious trouble as a company.  They could probably last the year, but things weren’t looking good, especially considering how things were at Apple’s “peak” in 1995 ($11B sales, $424 million net income, $6.2B total assets, $300 mil long-term debt, about 2.5x the shareholder equity…) 

    Microsoft didn’t save Apple with the $150 million investment, but it did, along with the Office deal and the sign of Bill Gates’ support, really help Apple’s public perception at a critical time.

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  • Posted: 15 December 2010 01:49 AM #18

    Mav, all of the above is good, but the iMac’s development was already under way, was announced the following May and released in August of 1998. The success of the Apple iMac changed the company’s fortunes and did far more for Apple than Microsoft ever could.

    In other words, the greatest corporate turnaround in history was already underway before August 1997 and Apple had already acquired NeXT for the foundation of what has become Mac OS X.

    On the flip side, resolving Apple’s case concerning QuickTime and offering Microsoft an end to the litigation over the “look and feel” of the Mac OS was a benefit to Microsoft. These agreements resolved a few headaches for both companies and pleased the members of the press.

    Apple’s revenue drop was inevitable as Steve Jobs cancelled unproductive product lines even if they created revenue and down-sized the operation to better fit Apple’s immediate needs. Losses were necessary before profits could return.

         
  • Posted: 15 December 2010 01:53 AM #19

    mbeauch - 15 December 2010 04:42 AM

    Fal,

    You lost me with the Lord of the rings.  LOL  James Bond I get, remember who you are talking to. LOL

    James Bond, eh? OK, it’s like Gates is Goldfinger and Jobs is James Bond. You really wouldn’t want either one to be your neighbor because Goldfinger would cheat at golf and Bond would cheat with your wife.

    No! Wait, wait…that’s not right either.

    I guess I’ll just have to give up on the analogies. Although I’m still pretty sure that Q is now working in Apple’s R&D department. Just saying.

         
  • Posted: 15 December 2010 01:58 AM #20

    mbeauch - 15 December 2010 05:15 AM

    You must remember that I am not a fanatic.

    Well get the frickin program, why don’t ‘cha?

    We’ll just wait here and talk amongst ourselves ‘till you catch up.

         
  • Posted: 15 December 2010 02:06 AM #21

    mbeauch - 15 December 2010 05:15 AM


    DT, this is all I have to go by. I vaguely remember MSFT buying AAPL stock, but none of the details. You must remember that I am not a fanatic. DT, you know I respect you immensely, but this speech by SJ does not sound like Apple was doing very good at the time. Two people call it a myth and SJ calls it reality. Apple fans supposedly are classy people, did not sound like it to me in this video.

    http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    SJ was ambivalent about Apple upon his return and had at the time no real plans to stay. Remember the title “iCEO” with the “i” standing for interim? I wrote about his return and wrote in defense of the decision for him to return to the helm of the company. I was surprised by the level of animus toward him by a large and vocal contingent of the Apple enthusiast community.

         
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    Posted: 15 December 2010 02:07 AM #22

    DawnTreader - 15 December 2010 05:49 AM

    Mav, all of the above is good, but the iMac’s development was already under way, was announced the following May and released in August of 1998. The success of the Apple iMac changed the company’s fortunes and did far more for Apple than Microsoft ever could.

    In other words, the greatest corporate turnaround in history was already underway before August 1997 and Apple had already acquired NeXT for the foundation of what has become Mac OS X.

    On the flip side, resolving Apple’s case concerning QuickTime and offering Microsoft an end to the litigation over the “look and feel” of the Mac OS was a benefit to Microsoft. These agreements resolved a few headaches for both companies and pleased the members of the press.

    Apple’s revenue drop was inevitable as Steve Jobs cancelled unproductive product lines even if they created revenue and down-sized the operation to better fit Apple’s immediate needs. Losses were necessary before profits could return.

    We’re not disagreeing.  Even someone of SJ’s caliber couldn’t turn “Apple 1.0” around immediately.  I also think we don’t disagree that as evil as Microsoft may have been at the time (that QuickTime stuff was pretty creepy, for example), SJ made a brilliant move to get Bill Gates’ very public support, a little “safety net” investment (hey, who doesn’t like having a $150 million capital infusion?) as well as tell the world that Microsoft doesn’t have to lose for Apple to win.  Did that ever show that “Steve Jobs 2.0” just plain got it and knew what he had to do.

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    The Summer of AAPL is here.  Enjoy it (responsibly) while it lasts.
    AFB Night Owl Team™
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    Posted: 15 December 2010 02:11 AM #23

    FalKirk - 15 December 2010 05:58 AM
    mbeauch - 15 December 2010 05:15 AM

    You must remember that I am not a fanatic.

    Well get the frickin program, why don’t ‘cha?

    We’ll just wait here and talk amongst ourselves ‘till you catch up.


    Nope, the Apple vs MSFT means nothing to me, sorry. Like I said, they are very different companies to me and I don’t want any company to “rule the world”. To use Will’s term about SJ, he is a dictator.  LOL This really is funny though. You are not invested in AAPL but are a diehard fan. I am invested in AAPL, but don’t really care for the company, strange.  Before the haters chime in, remember I am invested in AAPL not Apple, there is a difference and I don’t worship corporations.

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    Posted: 15 December 2010 02:27 AM #24

    Buy some of the dictator’s products.  That’s part of why DT, myself and others have such conviction in Apple and its strategy.  I use both evil dictators’ stuff (Windows PC, iMac, iPhone, etc.); had a chance to use competitors’ stuff (Samsung Galaxy S variant), and there’s just no comparison.  It ain’t always perfect, but things are much better over on the Apple side for most users.

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    The Summer of AAPL is here.  Enjoy it (responsibly) while it lasts.
    AFB Night Owl Team™
    Thanks, Steve.

         
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    Posted: 15 December 2010 02:48 AM #25

    Mav - 15 December 2010 06:27 AM

    Buy some of the dictator’s products.  That’s part of why DT, myself and others have such conviction in Apple and its strategy.  I use both evil dictators’ stuff (Windows PC, iMac, iPhone, etc.); had a chance to use competitors’ stuff (Samsung Galaxy S variant), and there’s just no comparison.  It ain’t always perfect, but things are much better over on the Apple side for most users.

    I buy the products Mav. Tammy is getting an ipad for Christmas and I a MB Air. I do hate looking at the box up under the tree. I want it now dang it.  LOL

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    Posted: 15 December 2010 02:58 AM #26

    mbeauch - 15 December 2010 06:48 AM
    Mav - 15 December 2010 06:27 AM

    Buy some of the dictator’s products.  That’s part of why DT, myself and others have such conviction in Apple and its strategy.  I use both evil dictators’ stuff (Windows PC, iMac, iPhone, etc.); had a chance to use competitors’ stuff (Samsung Galaxy S variant), and there’s just no comparison.  It ain’t always perfect, but things are much better over on the Apple side for most users.

    I buy the products Mav. Tammy is getting an ipad for Christmas and I a MB Air. I do hate looking at the box up under the tree. I want it now dang it.  LOL

    Hey, give me your address…I’ll take care of that box for ya!  :innocent:

         
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    Posted: 15 December 2010 03:09 AM #27

    madmaxroi - 15 December 2010 06:58 AM

    Hey, give me your address…I’ll take care of that box for ya!  :innocent:


    LOL, I hear you Mad, funny. You do realize I live in Georgia, right? Now let me go get my gun cleaned. tongue laugh

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    Adversity does not just build character, it reveals it.